Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#581

Post by bb88 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:09 PM UTC

ironjunkie wrote: post #546

npunt wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2/3s of all PR activity on Github is on a Mac, for what it's worth. Certainly the platform punches above its weight relative to market share. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2017/102/?time=2...

probably related to the fact that the top language on Github is javascript. If you do anything else than UI scripts, I would agree with the above and say you are better off with a linux box.

I think you're probably right. I feel like the one thing Mac is really good for is writing the porcelain. node.js came out of the porcelain side, so it seems to fit really well there too.

When you get into plumbing, I feel like there are better alternatives.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#582

Post by voltagex_ » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:10 PM UTC

stiGGG wrote: post #496

deathanatos wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last couple of jobs have given me no choice aside from a MBP and OS X. They do this because they don't want to manage multiple kinds of machines from an IT perspective. (I'm not sure I agree with this, but it is what it is.) Depending on how widespread this is, usage may not reflect actual user desire (though I would wager quite a large number of users either don't care what they're using, or care, but a MBP is ad…

In my second to last company (a web development shop), they had originally the policy that a new developers can choose if he want either a mac, linux or windows machine. When i arrived there it was 75% mac and the rest used linux, not even one had made the choice for windows. After a while some new guys get hired and one of them wanted to use windows. We found out immediately, that this caused a lot of problems, beca…

I guess from a business point of view it makes sense, but I really get frustrated when I find an open source project that's completely unbuildable on Windows.

Maybe the developer in question would have been better using a manually created VM or WSL?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#583

Post by walshemj » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:10 PM UTC

blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

I don't really get that you can run X windows to work on your end server and you can set up local tools to work direct MySqlWorkBench for example.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#584

Post by khedoros1 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:11 PM UTC

blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

> Linux distros are by far the best environment for a computer scientists - made by developers, for developers - but there's no major vendor that sells machines with Linux pre-installed and supported, and getting Linux installed on the newest Surface or Dell toy is often a challenge that gets many frustrated.

Is there any reason why something like the various Dell machines preloaded with Ubuntu or RHEL wouldn't count?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#585

Post by voltagex_ » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:12 PM UTC

jcfrei wrote: post #564

fastball wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly does your development workflow look like where Linux was so much better than MacOS?

Apple frequently introduces changes to its OS that caters to the average user without any hindsight for developers. A good example I had to deal with; I wanted to change the port the SSH daemon listens on. With El Capitan and future versions you have to temporarily disable SIP (System Integrity Protection) - which requires two reboots - in order to make the change to the ssh.plist file. As you can see it's a common p…

Is there anything stopping you using a separate sshd to run on a different port? Or using one from homebrew instead of Apple's bundled one?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#586

Post by snowwrestler » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:12 PM UTC

archagon wrote: post #469

vbezhenar wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's Windows for ARM, so important Windows applications will be recompiled to ARM and those who stay behind probably can take that performance hit.

Except, like, all the games.

IIRC Windows games already sucked on Mac hardware, even booting natively.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#587

Post by yasth » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:13 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #561

lhorie wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's this different than going back to PowerPC architecture? When they switched to Intel, I recall there being a lot of talk of benefits to running on the same chips as everyone else. From what I've been hearing lately about Apple, the impression I keep getting is that Apple doesn't think of Mac as a product with a specific target market, but more as a sort of just-a-really-really-big-ipad. The closed garden approac…

> When they switched to Intel, I recall there being a lot of talk of benefits to running on the same chips as everyone else. They switched to Intel first and foremost because PowerPC was not going to get them the performance/power ratio that they wanted. It was holding them back in laptops. For example, Apple never shipped a laptop with a G5 chip because it took so much damn power to run a G5. Intel was basically the…

OS as a gatekeeper is still present in a lot of corporate stuff. You'd be amazed the number of people who are still running IE because of one reporting package or what not.

That said there is no reason in 2020 they couldn't dual boot to MS's Windows ARM which is already shipping supports 32 bit x86 apps and should be polished enough to do legacy to the limited degree most users need.

I have to say this isn't how I expected Intel to go down. It is basically microcomputers killing minicomputers all over again (which was before my time, TBH).

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#588

Post by walshemj » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:13 PM UTC

sreque wrote: post #462

Myrmornis wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What apple software do you need to use? Sure, it's annoying not having the GNU command-line utilities. But `brew install coreutils` basically fixes that for me. I admit I don't work heavily with compiled languages on macOS so I can't comment on technical aspects of that. iTerm2 is not inferior to linux terminal emulators. The Apple laptops are quite obviously the best hardware experience out there. I mean obviously i…

I've heard it said that the greatest minds of our generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. However, I feel like the greatest minds of our generation are spent trying to figure out how to enable people to build Linux software on OSX. Whether it is: * a convoluted process involving Vagrant, Docker, or both, because you depend on one or more pieces of software that don't run at all on OSX, including D…

You always ought to build on the same hardware you deploy on - to be blunt having multiple developers messing around on n different macs is just madness!

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#589

Post by nqzero » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:15 PM UTC

khedoros1 wrote: post #584

blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

> Linux distros are by far the best environment for a computer scientists - made by developers, for developers - but there's no major vendor that sells machines with Linux pre-installed and supported, and getting Linux installed on the newest Surface or Dell toy is often a challenge that gets many frustrated. Is there any reason why something like the various Dell machines preloaded with Ubuntu or RHEL wouldn't count…

for laptops, dell seems to love 16:9 aspect ratio, which makes them inappropriate for development. for workstations, every dell i've seen uses custom cases that prevent upgrading the motherboard with an OTS component

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#590

Post by tjr225 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:15 PM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #562

ionforce wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What parts of your workflow do you think are uniquely enhanced by not being on Mac?

For me, 1. Getting packages with apt on ubuntu without installing homebrew. It's vastly simpler and natively supported by ubuntu. I can also update my entire system with sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade. 2. Native docker support. 3. On mac, I always ask the question whether something is ctrl-c or cmd-c, say. On linux it's always ctrl. 4. I don't have to login to the apple store to get the software I need.…

2 - docker works flawlessly on macos

4 - i cant think of a single application, outside of maybe xcode, a developer might need to sign into the app store for

6 - whatever reasons that youtuber might have for not using macbooks, i will never buy a non-mac notebook ever again. this 2013 13" mbp has been the best and most reliable computer I have ever had in 30 years and I bought it used!

7 - sure the apple brand is cool but i don't get your point? doesn't it mean that you care about the branding so much so that you won't use it? do you see where I'm going?