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Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#61

Post by mirekrusin »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
kurthr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people selling it... (often illegally) to kids, who then have trouble getting a basic education and develop habits, which are long term destructive to their ability to operate within society.

Mid 30s adult here who used an e-cigarette for a year or two when alone in the car for funsies (flavors smell nice). What, exactly, is the problem with kids vaping/using e-cigarettes if they don't contain a controlled substance (THC or nicotine, in these cases). We don't ban kids from consuming caffeine, so what's the problem with inert vapors? I agree that the liquid to be vaporized needs to be regulated to prevent…

It sets up distance to seriously dangerous things way too short for teens: - few drops to get little high, teens love to experiment because they can show how cool/adults they are, and they're hooked in no time - concentration of nicotine in nic shots is way too high, spill in your pocket or just having your hands "dirty" with 18mg can end up in emergency room or even death, if teens have younger siblings the risk goes up, bit of liquid from a tiny bottle of nicotine shot can easily kill an infant (and they love to catch and suck random things) - comparison with cigarettes sometimes doesn't make sense, you can't accidentally eat a pack of cigarettes in few minutes, with liquid nicotine it's enough to spread it on the skin (not even ingesting it) which absorbs it extremely well and it's hard to wash off. etc.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#62

Post by drewmate »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #26
neaden wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems that I see with that are. 1. Vaping still isn't that healthy for you even if everything is ideal. Heating something up and inhaling it is never going to be that healthy. Add in possible contamination in the liquid, issues with not cleaning the vape etc. and you are always going to have some health problems. 2. It makes it easier to then switch to nicotine once they have the vape pen since the psychologic…

> I think a blanket ban on vapes for everyone under 18 and a ban on tobacco for 21 and older would probably have beneficial public health impacts. That's a fair compromise, although I'd like an outright ban on cigarettes. If someone wants to vape to get their nicotine, or chew gum, fine (I am a supporter of safe recreational drug use). But smoking has been proven to be downright ruinous to your long term health. Disc…

> Disclosure: I am putting a Kickstarter together to use GMOs to eliminate tobacco long term.

Could you elaborate on this? It sounds interesting, but it also sounds kind of "Scorpio-like" [0] like you are some Bond villain plotting to take over the world's tobacco supply with a genetically modified super-tobacco that will strangle other tobacco at the roots unless farmers pay you for weed killer. [1]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnod9vtB4xA

[1] https://www.roundup.com/en-us

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#63

Post by LyndsySimon »

berberous wrote: post #31
neaden wrote: post #2

I think it is very important for everyone to keep in mind that vaping is probably safer than smoking. But it might not be, we don't know for sure. And it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. So trying to encourage active smokers to switch to vaping is probably beneficial, but increasing overall tobacco consumption rates is bad.

Yeah, I'm highly skeptical it's overall safe. You have all sorts of metals, liquids, plastics, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc. Some people try to select 'healthy' choices (like organic cotton for the wick); maybe that's healthier, maybe it's not. But then you also have tons of cheap devices on the market, made in China, with who knows what as the cheapest metal/fabric, and then literally tons of unregulated flavorin…

> You have all sorts of metals, liquids, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc

Metal content is negligible unless you dry hit. No one likes that so it's pretty much a self-limiting problem.

Flavoring compounds, though... there are liquids out there that contain diacetyl (a "buttery" flavoring). It's relatively common in foods, but is known specifically to cause issues when heated and inhaled.

ETA: I just saw that this is mentioned in the article.

> Any one of those components could be harmful.

Yep. The best harm reduction strategy at the moment seems to be to stick to well-known and establish manufacturers of eliquid.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#64

Post by babygoat »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #63
berberous wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm highly skeptical it's overall safe. You have all sorts of metals, liquids, plastics, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc. Some people try to select 'healthy' choices (like organic cotton for the wick); maybe that's healthier, maybe it's not. But then you also have tons of cheap devices on the market, made in China, with who knows what as the cheapest metal/fabric, and then literally tons of unregulated flavorin…

> You have all sorts of metals, liquids, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc Metal content is negligible unless you dry hit. No one likes that so it's pretty much a self-limiting problem. Flavoring compounds, though... there are liquids out there that contain diacetyl (a "buttery" flavoring). It's relatively common in foods, but is known specifically to cause issues when heated and inhaled. ETA: I just saw that this is m…

If I had a vaping problem, a "buttery" flavoring would probably make me sick enough to quit.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#65

Post by [deleted] »

drewmate wrote: post #62
toomuchtodo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think a blanket ban on vapes for everyone under 18 and a ban on tobacco for 21 and older would probably have beneficial public health impacts. That's a fair compromise, although I'd like an outright ban on cigarettes. If someone wants to vape to get their nicotine, or chew gum, fine (I am a supporter of safe recreational drug use). But smoking has been proven to be downright ruinous to your long term health. Disc…

> Disclosure: I am putting a Kickstarter together to use GMOs to eliminate tobacco long term. Could you elaborate on this? It sounds interesting, but it also sounds kind of "Scorpio-like" [0] like you are some Bond villain plotting to take over the world's tobacco supply with a genetically modified super-tobacco that will strangle other tobacco at the roots unless farmers pay you for weed killer. [1] [0] https://www.…

[deleted]

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#66

Post by notvplez »

DanBC wrote: post #50
notvplez wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who quit smoking thanks to vaping I cannot fathom why anyone would go the other direction. Why not just continue vaping instead?

They enjoy the experience of nicotine, and don't realise that the habits of smoking make it a bit more psychologically addictive than vaping.

Sure, but that first cigarette you light up is going to taste absolutely disgusting, whether compared to vaping or not. I just don’t get why anyone would think it would be better to continue smoking instead of vaping, unless they’re somehow into the taste of campfires.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#67

Post by babygoat »

TFortunato wrote: post #47
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the risk that ecigs are an on ramp to actual cigarette smoking. That reflects my experience, first using a friends vape now and then to bumming the occasional cigarette to actual smoking. There's a symmetry we don't like to acknowledge between what makes vapes good for quitting - you can slowly ramp your nicotine - and what makes vapes good for starting. See this study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamape…

Not sure why people are downvoting w/o commenting. It seems like the study concluded what you are saying - that vaping / eCigs do increase the likelihood you will start smoking actual cigarettes.

> e-Cigarette use was associated with greater risk for subsequent cigarette smoking initiation and past 30-day cigarette smoking.

How about: Nicotine users more likely to use nicotine.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#68

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

notvplez wrote: post #46
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the risk that ecigs are an on ramp to actual cigarette smoking. That reflects my experience, first using a friends vape now and then to bumming the occasional cigarette to actual smoking. There's a symmetry we don't like to acknowledge between what makes vapes good for quitting - you can slowly ramp your nicotine - and what makes vapes good for starting. See this study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamape…

As someone who quit smoking thanks to vaping I cannot fathom why anyone would go the other direction. Why not just continue vaping instead?

Well they're dumb kids for one. But also smoking feels better than vaping. From what I've looked into it seems that tobacco smoke contains not just nicotine but also MAOIs which amplify the addictiveness and pleasure of the nicotine. Do note that I've quit now, through cold turkey though.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#69

Post by truculation »

Robotbeat wrote: post #40
truculation wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes a programming problem certainly can occupy the previously-bored mind -- but is that an option in school?

I used to program my calculator while bored in school.

Ah, sounds good.

On a related note these days I think most kids are banned from using cellphones in school. So they'd have to purchase a separate calculator.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#70

Post by truculation »

neaden wrote: post #52
truculation wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because you've never consumed it that you don't miss it.

I think you are being unclear here. I took your remark on abstinence to be a reference to abstinence only sex education, as I think most readers did. If you are asking how we can help teens with a nicotine addiction to break it then there are a variety of ways that have been shown to work in helping someone break addiction, so schools, parents, and healthcare providers can support those.

The article begs to differ. They fear a whole new generation of nicotine addicts. Hence my question.

Btw, do you know if schools in the U.S. sell sweets? (My school used to have a 'tuck shop' for this purpose).

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