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Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#31

Post by berberous »

neaden wrote: post #2

I think it is very important for everyone to keep in mind that vaping is probably safer than smoking. But it might not be, we don't know for sure. And it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. So trying to encourage active smokers to switch to vaping is probably beneficial, but increasing overall tobacco consumption rates is bad.

Yeah, I'm highly skeptical it's overall safe. You have all sorts of metals, liquids, plastics, flavoring compounds, wicks, etc. Some people try to select 'healthy' choices (like organic cotton for the wick); maybe that's healthier, maybe it's not. But then you also have tons of cheap devices on the market, made in China, with who knows what as the cheapest metal/fabric, and then literally tons of unregulated flavoring compounds on top of PG/VG. Any one of those components could be harmful.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#32

Post by julienmarie »

Smoking per se has been a behaviour for thousands of years. As much as there will always be effects on health, vaping has been a god send for me. I have been smoking 1+ pack a day for nearly 20 years, until I switched to vaping 9 months ago. I feel incomparably better. My resting heart rate went down by 20%, I breathe better, am way less tired, and it doesn't stink . Plus, there is a geeky aspect with what we call RDAs ( rebuildable vapes ). Yes, we do not know the long terms effects, but the chances to be worse than cigarettes are close to 0. Also, this article is full of references to studies that have been flagged as partisan and not seriously conducted. Not smoking / vaping is better, but for an ex-smoker, this is a godsend.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#33

Post by portofcall »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
kurthr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people selling it... (often illegally) to kids, who then have trouble getting a basic education and develop habits, which are long term destructive to their ability to operate within society.

Mid 30s adult here who used an e-cigarette for a year or two when alone in the car for funsies (flavors smell nice). What, exactly, is the problem with kids vaping/using e-cigarettes if they don't contain a controlled substance (THC or nicotine, in these cases). We don't ban kids from consuming caffeine, so what's the problem with inert vapors? I agree that the liquid to be vaporized needs to be regulated to prevent…

These do contain nicotine, that’s the first paragraph of the article with the kid asking about nicotine gum.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#34

Post by FrozenTuna »

aje403 wrote: post #14

"Young hormonal teenagers seeking to rebel perform risky behavior with addictive substances" Maybe they should just sit in the chair and do what they're told instead

Too true.

"ABC is a gateway drug/activity/event. It leads to XYZ, which is way worse!"

Sure, so educate them on real consequences and safety and not the external imposed consequences. Also, don't lie about ABC since they'll assume you lied about XYZ as well.

Seriously, who still doesn't see the same 5-10 year pattern at this point?

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#35

Post by kurthr »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
kurthr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people selling it... (often illegally) to kids, who then have trouble getting a basic education and develop habits, which are long term destructive to their ability to operate within society.

Mid 30s adult here who used an e-cigarette for a year or two when alone in the car for funsies (flavors smell nice). What, exactly, is the problem with kids vaping/using e-cigarettes if they don't contain a controlled substance (THC or nicotine, in these cases). We don't ban kids from consuming caffeine, so what's the problem with inert vapors? I agree that the liquid to be vaporized needs to be regulated to prevent…

The article is about nicotine vape (Juul) which is addictive and (in some states) illegal to sell to children. The problem is in the title "I can't stop", and the solution is to put them on nicotine gum?

"You must be at least 21 years old to purchase products on JUUL.com.'

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#36

Post by mchannon »

A generation ago these kids would've gotten busted for smoking old-fashioned cigarettes ("Smokin' in the boys room"). Two generations ago it was legal to buy (at some states at age 16) and legal to possess and use, except on school grounds. Three generations ago it was legal even in doctor's offices and hospitals.

California and Massachusetts (and oddly enough, Mississippi) are stoking up a new hysteria with public health spending in an effort to keep people of all ages from switching from conventional cigarettes to e-cigs.

I see six-figure earners on the sidewalks of San Francisco smoking old-fashioned cancer sticks and very few vaping. I wonder- did my tax dollars dissuade them from upgrading their habit? Second-hand smoke is substantially safer from vaping, but actual health of nonsmokers must not be these states' priorities.

There are rumblings about regulating nicotine content in real cigarettes. If they were to regulate vape juices (like limit the worst precarcinogenic bases), I think that's a much better (and cheaper!) place to devote public resources.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#37

Post by neaden »

bspn wrote: post #19
neaden wrote: post #2

I think it is very important for everyone to keep in mind that vaping is probably safer than smoking. But it might not be, we don't know for sure. And it is certainly worse than not consuming any tobacco product. So trying to encourage active smokers to switch to vaping is probably beneficial, but increasing overall tobacco consumption rates is bad.

I agree that for traditional tobacco smokers it is likely a net-positive, and it is potentially a tool they can use to reduce their nicotine intake and even eliminate it altogether. The concern with the latest explosion in schools, however, is the significant number of kids getting addicted to nicotine who may not otherwise have tried smoking traditional cigarettes. The nicotine level in a Juul pod is incredibly high…

I definitely agree with this, the ideal would be current tobacco users switching to vapes while no non-tobacco user touches them. I just am not sure how we can get to that ideal and how to balance encouraging smokers to switch without encouraging kids to think of vaping as safe.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#38

Post by aje403 »

FrozenTuna wrote: post #34
aje403 wrote: post #14

"Young hormonal teenagers seeking to rebel perform risky behavior with addictive substances" Maybe they should just sit in the chair and do what they're told instead

Too true. "ABC is a gateway drug/activity/event. It leads to XYZ, which is way worse!" Sure, so educate them on real consequences and safety and not the external imposed consequences. Also, don't lie about ABC since they'll assume you lied about XYZ as well. Seriously, who still doesn't see the same 5-10 year pattern at this point?

People like to control others and everyone loves a sensationalist national epidemic for the headlines is what is at the heart of it. I like vaping though. Doesn't appear to do any lasting harm compared to everything else and smart kids will wise up and quit eventually.

Re: Schools Struggle with Vaping Explosion

#39

Post by truculation »

neaden wrote: post #29
truculation wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that abstinence works. Btw you know of course that many boys are put on officially-sanctioned drugs at school? Should we put them on those drugs instead?

Are you trying to segue into a discussion on over prescription of ADHD medication? I don't really see what the one has to do with the other but sure, they are both problems. But you can't just say two things are drugs so they are equal. I take a drug first thing every morning for my allergies for instance. Edit: You edited your reply after I started. I think abstinence works fine for something like nicotine. Unlike s…

It's because you've never consumed it that you don't miss it.
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