Surprised that nobody has mentioned Zinus, which sells similar stuff but for (relatively) dirt cheap via Amazon, Walmart, etc. A year ago, I paid under $200 for a full size foam mattress, very comfortable for my partner and I.
Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
161–170 of 269 posts
Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
#162The margins in this industry and its structure are almost an economic paradox. The dynamic is basically (1) markups are very high (2) manufacturing is a solved problem and (3) there is lots of competition. This should resolve to a very competitive market with costs trending to marginal manufacturing cost. Instead, you have high prices for consumers and competition for the tremendous sales margins driving a marketing…
It's almost as if the hegemonic form of Econ theory is mostly bullshit that doesn't correspond to reality.
Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
#163I own a Hästens bed, which is supposedly among the best box springs (with a horsehair topper) you can buy. I also own a latex mattress from IKEA, made by a really famous latex manufacturer, which has been discontinued to sell inferior options. These are good, but in my case they couldn't beat a setup that is an order of magnitude cheaper, simpler and better. A simple custom-made japanese shikibuton, filled with felte…
>A simple custom-made japanese shikibuton, filled with felted wool panels and a buckwheat pillow. I put this on a modular set of bed slates to avoid insects, get better airing and avoid cold floors Can you explain your "bed slates" further? All I want is a simple raised wooden platform, and they're absurdly expensive. Bed frames in general seem like a totally messes up market; Ikea's fucking slats could drive a man t…
> All I want is a simple raised wooden platform, and they're absurdly expensive.
> At some point im going to be forced to build the damn thing myself if the market is going to refuse to sell anything sensible
I did this and was so happy with the results that I built a second one for the room that we rent out. Probably $80 in materials and a few hours to assemble. Feels sturdier than the floor it stands on (no weeble wobbles). Photos: https://imgur.com/a/gtwmS
Could share plans but it's pretty simple: 1/2" sanded plywood for the surface, 2x6 outer frame, 2x4 joists, 2x4 legs that bolt to the frame, a pound of 3" screws. The plywood surface sits about an inch inside the frame, creating a lip that holds the mattress in place.
If you don't have power tools then HD / Lowes can can make all the cuts for you (I recommend this for the plywood as they have the best saw for it), then all you need is a drill to put the thing together.
Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
#164The journalist spoke to all these founders and to marketing people, but didn't ask a fairly obvious question: What makes the mattress market so much weirder than for other products? Let's compare mattresses to big-screen TVs, which are also $1000+, infrequently purchased, bulky items: - The article says, "If consumers recognize a brand, it creates a situation where mattress stores are slashing prices to compete with…
You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them. You can't really test different mattress brands in a store; yes, you can lie on them, but in my experience at least, that doesn't give a very good prediction of what sleeping on the mattress long term will be like. The result is a standard asymmetric information scenario: the seller knows much more than the customer about the actual quality of the…
> You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them. You can't really test different mattress brands in a store; yes, you can lie on them, but in my experience at least, that doesn't give a very good prediction of what sleeping on the mattress long term will be like.
FWIW IKEA offered 90 days "trial" when I bought my last bed a couple of years ago.
I liked it for a few months so I never verified if their return policy worked.
Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them. You can't really test different mattress brands in a store; yes, you can lie on them, but in my experience at least, that doesn't give a very good prediction of what sleeping on the mattress long term will be like. The result is a standard asymmetric information scenario: the seller knows much more than the customer about the actual quality of the…
A way to sell in an imperfect market is with branding . You, as the seller (or manufacturer), won't risk your hard earned reputation by selling a couple of lemons. Something like in the kitchen appliances market. You can't try a dishwasher nor a washing machine at the shop, but you know that you cannot go wrong with Bosch (no affiliation, I'm just satisfied with them). The interesting part in my opinion is that in th…
Branding depends on a reputation.
That reputation needs to be established by either word of mouth or general reviews. For mattresses, word of mouth isn't that good because people have different preferences.
Moreover, general reviews have essentially been corrupted by 'astroturfing' reviews. That is, almost all mattress reviews that are prominent are financed by a manufacturer. They then use publishing clout or heavy SEO to be found over any possible remaining reviews. Besides, single user reviews aren't that valuable because of personal preference and lack of comparison mattresses. Thus, it is really hard for an honest reviewer to start. They need capital to get sufficiently many mattresses. Then, they need to be found, thus going up against the heavily SEO'd dishonest sites. Finally, they need to stand up to all attempts from the mattress companies and dishonest reviewers to actually survive.
Finally, bad-mouthing brands' product quality is again stymied by personal preference and the small number of mattresses anyone sleeps on.
Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
#166The margins in this industry and its structure are almost an economic paradox. The dynamic is basically (1) markups are very high (2) manufacturing is a solved problem and (3) there is lots of competition. This should resolve to a very competitive market with costs trending to marginal manufacturing cost. Instead, you have high prices for consumers and competition for the tremendous sales margins driving a marketing…
It's almost as if the hegemonic form of Econ theory is mostly bullshit that doesn't correspond to reality.
Not in this case, though hegemonic is a big word here. You can still buy a mattress for $200 if you want. Micro-102 has all sorts of funky examples where things behave weird. This mattress situation is only possible because people want to buy a premium product "irrationally." This isn't housing.
Mattresses and wine are pretty straightforward examples because "marketing" is straightforward, advertising and sales. It seems obviously wasteful when $400 of your purchase price was spent on FB ads, $400 on sales and only £200 on manufacturing.
In the garment trade (a much bigger industry), there's still that insane manufacturing/price ratio. It's just that "marketing" is more complicated, involving premium retail experiences and difficult stock management. In both cases, you could hypothesise a different structure where stuff gets produced and shipped to consumers at a fraction of current prices.
But... this particular thing can't really happen in markets where people want/need stuff and can't afford it. Cheap/cost-price alcohol (also wine) is also available, and popular. This can only really exist when people don't mind paying more.
Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
#167The margins in this industry and its structure are almost an economic paradox. The dynamic is basically (1) markups are very high (2) manufacturing is a solved problem and (3) there is lots of competition. This should resolve to a very competitive market with costs trending to marginal manufacturing cost. Instead, you have high prices for consumers and competition for the tremendous sales margins driving a marketing…
Slightly off-topic, but if you genuinely think that there's no such thing as high-end wine, I feel a little sorry for you. Surely you can tell the difference between the Budweiser/Calsberg-type beer and beer from an independent brewery? If so, then surely you can imagine the same might be true of wine? I get that the fact that some bottles cost thousands may offend some people's sensibilities, but this hardly covers the wine mainstream and is usually down to intangibles that go beyond the wine itself, just like a piece of art.
It's certainly the case, of course, that while there's a big gap between a $10 and a $50 bottle of wine, naturally the gains for price points above that get incremental pretty quickly in much the same manner as TVs — is a TV that costs $9,000 over four times as good as a $2,000 model?
Wine experts often stumble on double-blind tests, sure, but then again, so do audiophiles trying to differentiate lossy and lossless audio.
Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, who can really tell the difference between TVs in the store? The source is crap, the lighting in the viewing area is crap, the settings are totally unknown.. and the reality is, they'll all look good once you get them home.
I think he's close, but it's more that there are objective criteria for TV quality. My guess is that there are enough people who will only buy TVs with good reviews that manufacturers don't want to muddy the waters on their top-tier models. Low-end TVs sometimes still have store-specific model numbers. For a mattress, a review is less helpful. Firmness is probably the most noticeable feature of a mattress, and what's…
Consumers are a lot less discerning about TVs than you think. Most consumers only care about size and maybe resolution. The TV market is dominated by low end brands.
Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
#169The margins in this industry and its structure are almost an economic paradox. The dynamic is basically (1) markups are very high (2) manufacturing is a solved problem and (3) there is lots of competition. This should resolve to a very competitive market with costs trending to marginal manufacturing cost. Instead, you have high prices for consumers and competition for the tremendous sales margins driving a marketing…
Slightly off-topic, but if you genuinely think that there's no such thing as high-end wine, I feel a little sorry for you. Surely you can tell the difference between the Budweiser/Calsberg-type beer and beer from an independent brewery? If so, then surely you can imagine the same might be true of wine? I get that the fact that some bottles cost thousands may offend some people's sensibilities, but this hardly covers…
A handful of people might be "super tasters" and be able to tell the difference.
I suspect most people in a properly run double blind test would be able to tell you what they like, but that wouldn't be repeatable over time and it wouldn't correlate with price.
Your last sentence about audiophiles is odd, because everyone knows audiophile hifi is full on nonsense.
Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies
#170I own a Hästens bed, which is supposedly among the best box springs (with a horsehair topper) you can buy. I also own a latex mattress from IKEA, made by a really famous latex manufacturer, which has been discontinued to sell inferior options. These are good, but in my case they couldn't beat a setup that is an order of magnitude cheaper, simpler and better. A simple custom-made japanese shikibuton, filled with felte…
>A simple custom-made japanese shikibuton, filled with felted wool panels and a buckwheat pillow. I put this on a modular set of bed slates to avoid insects, get better airing and avoid cold floors Can you explain your "bed slates" further? All I want is a simple raised wooden platform, and they're absurdly expensive. Bed frames in general seem like a totally messes up market; Ikea's fucking slats could drive a man t…
Any particular reason you want wood? I've found the folding metal frames you can buy on Amazon to be fantastic. Cheap, easy to assemble, super stable, no creaking, minimal profile, lots of under-bed storage, easy to move.