111–120 of 269 posts
Mattress-packing via machine pix: https://twitter.com/machinepix/status/965691925712875521 Instead of merely airing the bed each morning I run a dehumidifer. Hopefully this will reduce mould & mites. Now HN can tell me why my personal mattress hack is a bad idea.
The journalist spoke to all these founders and to marketing people, but didn't ask a fairly obvious question: What makes the mattress market so much weirder than for other products? Let's compare mattresses to big-screen TVs, which are also $1000+, infrequently purchased, bulky items: - The article says, "If consumers recognize a brand, it creates a situation where mattress stores are slashing prices to compete with…
You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them. You can't really test different mattress brands in a store; yes, you can lie on them, but in my experience at least, that doesn't give a very good prediction of what sleeping on the mattress long term will be like. The result is a standard asymmetric information scenario: the seller knows much more than the customer about the actual quality of the…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I think the reason the 100+ day trials are successful for the companies is that it's a huge pain to box up and ship back a mattress. I don't think they ask you to ship it back; I think they contract with some local charity to come pick up the mattress, or just toss it and write off the loss.
The big shipping problem is in the warranty (i.e. if you find a defect after the 100 day (or whatever) trial period) - you generally have to pay return shipping to make a warranty claim, and it costs somewhere between $400 - $800 to ship a queen mattress across the country. [1] Even shipping to the next state can cost $100 - $200. And assuming they agree that it deserves a replacement, you have to pay shipping costs…
"Purple will cover the shipping or pickup charges for returns and exchanges, except when there are extenuating circumstances. You will be informed beforehand if extra charges will apply."
which is consistent with what I was saying, which is that you don't have to pay return shipping.
But I think you are right that shipping costs dominate; from what I hear, the reputable brands will give you a refund and send someone local to haul off the mattress for free.
I got a similar feeling when a company advertised in my Facebook feed that it had “reinvented belts,” and then a different company advertised more or less the same thing a few weeks later! Same with pills designed to boost your brain power. One week you are being pitched by brand X, the next by brand Y, and each one gives the impression that someone passionate about belts, or neuroscience, or whatever, poured their blood, sweat, and tears into this revolutionary new product.
Edit: I actually bought a “reinvented” belt, and I love it. I wonder if modern marketing, i.e. Facebook, makes it possible to “reinvent” mundane objects and make a buck, maybe the way it used to be before products became more commoditized and distributed by big corporations.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The big shipping problem is in the warranty (i.e. if you find a defect after the 100 day (or whatever) trial period) - you generally have to pay return shipping to make a warranty claim, and it costs somewhere between $400 - $800 to ship a queen mattress across the country. [1] Even shipping to the next state can cost $100 - $200. And assuming they agree that it deserves a replacement, you have to pay shipping costs…
https://purple.com/refund-policy "Purple will cover the shipping or pickup charges for returns and exchanges, except when there are extenuating circumstances. You will be informed beforehand if extra charges will apply." which is consistent with what I was saying, which is that you don't have to pay return shipping. But I think you are right that shipping costs dominate; from what I hear, the reputable brands will gi…
From their warranty page:
Any to-or-from transportation handling and costs and inspection costs associated with repairs or replacements are the responsibility of purchaser
So basically, don't count on that 10 year warranty for any of these mattresses unless you can truck it to the factory yourself.
Somewhat ironic that the article comments about MemoryFoamTalk not disclosing comissions from Nectar and then provides an (undisclosed) affiliate link. I have a Leesa as it was the only mattress (at the time) which fit my bed properly. The fact that all these companies can offer 100-365 day trials does hint at how stupidly large the margins are.
Remember how the movies Armageddon and Deep Impact both came out in the same year? (Apparently it was 1998.) It was so weird to have a choice of two bad asteroid movies, which wasn’t exactly a common trope at the time. I got a similar feeling when a company advertised in my Facebook feed that it had “reinvented belts,” and then a different company advertised more or less the same thing a few weeks later! Same with pi…
The journalist spoke to all these founders and to marketing people, but didn't ask a fairly obvious question: What makes the mattress market so much weirder than for other products? Let's compare mattresses to big-screen TVs, which are also $1000+, infrequently purchased, bulky items: - The article says, "If consumers recognize a brand, it creates a situation where mattress stores are slashing prices to compete with…
You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them. You can't really test different mattress brands in a store; yes, you can lie on them, but in my experience at least, that doesn't give a very good prediction of what sleeping on the mattress long term will be like. The result is a standard asymmetric information scenario: the seller knows much more than the customer about the actual quality of the…
The interesting part in my opinion is that in the mattress market this branding system seems not to work.
The journalist spoke to all these founders and to marketing people, but didn't ask a fairly obvious question: What makes the mattress market so much weirder than for other products? Let's compare mattresses to big-screen TVs, which are also $1000+, infrequently purchased, bulky items: - The article says, "If consumers recognize a brand, it creates a situation where mattress stores are slashing prices to compete with…
I can speak for this because I've actually experienced this. When I went to a local mattress store and found a mattress I liked, I was unable to find it online by name/model. Only references I found were to the same mattress store chain. Each chain makes sure all of their mattress brand names are unique to them, to prevent the exact kind of price shopping I was trying to do. Oddly enough when I went to a few other local mattress stores, I found very similar mattresses as the one I liked before, under different names.
E.g. What Chain A called 'Premium New Haven Sapphire Deluxe' was very similar to something Chain B called 'Silver Cooper Plush' and Chain C called 'Luxury Sunfire Extra Soft IV'.
Now the reason this is different from Samsung/LG is that you can buy the same (or almost the same) Samsung at Walmart, Amazon, Costco, or Best Buy based on the rough specs (size - 60", type - LED, features - SmartTV). Can't really do this for mattresses because there's no 'New Haven Sapphire' in Chain B, C, or any site online.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them. You can't really test different mattress brands in a store; yes, you can lie on them, but in my experience at least, that doesn't give a very good prediction of what sleeping on the mattress long term will be like. The result is a standard asymmetric information scenario: the seller knows much more than the customer about the actual quality of the…
Another small observation - the properties you described (asymmetric information, obfuscation, and a necessary purchase) apply to many parts of the healthcare market. I wonder whether it means that this market is dominated by lemons.
I can't sue anybody for a year's salary if I don't like my mattress (I don't).
Instead the market is dominated with inflated prices and mostly harmless procedures and tests. Sometimes the information isn't asymmetric, it's just difficult or sometimes just not a habit to try to find the best prices.
Here's an example that blew my mind a while back:
I was helping a friend with limited income afford medication. Generic Prozac, an extremely common drug.
Here are the current prices at Costco (you'll find the same trend many other places).
FLUOXETINE HCL 20 MG CAPSULE x100 $17.03
FLUOXETINE HCL 20 MG TABLET x90 $141.09 ($156.77 for 100, the price is listed for different values)
Look at that, nearly a factor of 10! For the same drug in a gel cap instead of pressed into a tablet. This isn't cherry picking, you can find the same scale of differences anywhere. Sometimes a drug will be cheaper in a tablet, other times a cap.
We had to call the doctor to get a prescription for the capsules, but for someone on a not-so-far-above-minimum wage job, that was a huge difference.
I only figured this out because I was curious about the difference and wanted to find out the best price, then I was blown away when I saw the vast differences in price. Anyone _could_ do the same thing for all of their prescriptions, but insurance and apathy mean that nobody cares so the market is extremely inefficient.