Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

curbed.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 269 posts

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#101

Post by alister »

verelo wrote: post #96
alister wrote: post #90

The journalist spoke to all these founders and to marketing people, but didn't ask a fairly obvious question: What makes the mattress market so much weirder than for other products? Let's compare mattresses to big-screen TVs, which are also $1000+, infrequently purchased, bulky items: - The article says, "If consumers recognize a brand, it creates a situation where mattress stores are slashing prices to compete with…

I’m pretty sure the answer is simple: TVs are hard to make, mattresses are very simple. Foam latex, it’s pretty much the simplest product you can fit in a box, and damage is probably not a concern as the product itself is what we use to protect most other products!

Sure, TVs are much harder to make than mattresses. I agree completely. But that doesn't explain why mattresses are so expensive and why we have 500 mattress manufacturers and obfuscated models and prices. In fact, your line of reasoning would lead to the opposite conclusion: Mattresses should be cheap, a commodity product dominated by 2 or 3 manufacturers who eke out a few percent margin, selling at a standard price. But that's not what we see.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#102

Post by TylerE »

alister wrote: post #101
verelo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure the answer is simple: TVs are hard to make, mattresses are very simple. Foam latex, it’s pretty much the simplest product you can fit in a box, and damage is probably not a concern as the product itself is what we use to protect most other products!

Sure, TVs are much harder to make than mattresses. I agree completely. But that doesn't explain why mattresses are so expensive and why we have 500 mattress manufacturers and obfuscated models and prices. In fact, your line of reasoning would lead to the opposite conclusion: Mattresses should be cheap, a commodity product dominated by 2 or 3 manufacturers who eke out a few percent margin, selling at a standard price.…

The materials probably aren't quite that cheap, and due to the bulk (a queen size mattress weights about 50-70lbs) there is natural price floor just of shipping expenses.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#103

Post by evjim »

deelowe wrote: post #21
ropeadopepope wrote: post #7

Reminds me of something called "Made for Outlet." Popular brands license their logos to third parties who make low quality goods. It has the label and the store has the name, but it's cheap junk worth a fraction of the price they're selling it for.

With globalization things are getting really weird in the retail space. For example, snap-on (a super premium tool maker) used to make wrenches for Lowes. They were nearly identical: http://www.snapon-bluepoint.com.sg/ Just a few days ago, AVE did a few videos showing evidence that there may be a single supplier for some new airguns that are on the market. Thing is, these air guns range in price from less than $100 (…

I was just checking out the harbor freight air nailers. The main concern I had was for the triggers, the plastic seemed really thin and poorly connected. I'll have to check out this video

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#104

Post by jimmy1 »

otterley wrote: post #84
donarb wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tuft and Needle’s returned mattresses are directly donated to local homeless and women's shelters.

Depends on the state. Reusing mattresses is not permitted in California, unless the mattress has undergone a sanitization process that often costs as much as the mattress is worth.

Every couple of days on HN, I learn of something else you can't do in California. That, plus absurd rent, makes me really glad I don't live there.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#105

Post by Johnny555 »

lsc wrote: post #93
gehwartzen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason the 100+ day trials are successful for the companies is that it's a huge pain to box up and ship back a mattress. Also most people don't have room to hold onto the old mattress for several months while they try out the new one on trial. I imagine a lot of people therefore keep 'good enough' mattresses vs sending them back.

>I think the reason the 100+ day trials are successful for the companies is that it's a huge pain to box up and ship back a mattress. I don't think they ask you to ship it back; I think they contract with some local charity to come pick up the mattress, or just toss it and write off the loss.

The big shipping problem is in the warranty (i.e. if you find a defect after the 100 day (or whatever) trial period) - you generally have to pay return shipping to make a warranty claim, and it costs somewhere between $400 - $800 to ship a queen mattress across the country. [1] Even shipping to the next state can cost $100 - $200.

And assuming they agree that it deserves a replacement, you have to pay shipping costs for them to ship the replacement.

So.... you can either pay $500 to ship an $800 mattress back to the factory and hope that they agree that it's defective enough to deserve a warranty replacement.... or you can just buy a new mattress.

Makes the 10 year warranty pretty meaningless if you pay more in shipping costs to make a claim than the mattress is worth.

[1] https://www.uship.com

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#106

Post by analog31 »

mc32 wrote: post #14
analog31 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At last I have an excuse for not making the bed in the morning. ;-) When my kids were tots and we took them to day care, the day care center had a collection of little beds for naps, which were some kind of durable fabric mesh stretched over a frame. I've often wondered how that would work as a general purpose mattress for adults, with little chance of festering over time.

You mean something like army cots[1]? [1] http://armynavysuperstores.com/cots.htm

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I suppose toddlers don't weigh as much as adults, and can probably sleep on anything.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#107

Post by dx034 »

TylerE wrote: post #102
alister wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, TVs are much harder to make than mattresses. I agree completely. But that doesn't explain why mattresses are so expensive and why we have 500 mattress manufacturers and obfuscated models and prices. In fact, your line of reasoning would lead to the opposite conclusion: Mattresses should be cheap, a commodity product dominated by 2 or 3 manufacturers who eke out a few percent margin, selling at a standard price.…

The materials probably aren't quite that cheap, and due to the bulk (a queen size mattress weights about 50-70lbs) there is natural price floor just of shipping expenses.

Shipping that from China to the US or Europe isn't expensive. From the port to the end customer is the most expensive part but even that won't be significant. Even washing machines (which are heavier and harder to transport) can be shipped for a relatively low price across long distances. I wouldn't expect shipping costs from China to the end customer to be more than $30 for any mattress.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#108

Post by dx034 »

labster wrote: post #87
wonder_bread wrote: post #16

Seems like part of what this article is discussing is the emerging 'Shopify effect'. The barriers to entry for starting an online brand-based business have plummetted to the point where even people with little means financially and no means technically can still set up a business for a fraction of what it cost in the 20th century. I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the middle of a Cambrian explosion-esque period for…

And yet, for living species, it looks a lot more like the K-T boundary extinction event. At least we created a lot of shareholder value.

Many of those shops won't make much profit. Shipping companies are probably the only ones profiting (if not shipped via national mail services). Most of the value will flow to the customer as prices are now much lower.

Re: Why there are so many online mattress-in-a-box companies

#109

Post by pdonis »

alister wrote: post #90

The journalist spoke to all these founders and to marketing people, but didn't ask a fairly obvious question: What makes the mattress market so much weirder than for other products? Let's compare mattresses to big-screen TVs, which are also $1000+, infrequently purchased, bulky items: - The article says, "If consumers recognize a brand, it creates a situation where mattress stores are slashing prices to compete with…

You can easily test TV brands by going to a store and looking at them. You can't really test different mattress brands in a store; yes, you can lie on them, but in my experience at least, that doesn't give a very good prediction of what sleeping on the mattress long term will be like.

The result is a standard asymmetric information scenario: the seller knows much more than the customer about the actual quality of the product. And standard microeconomics tells you that in such a situation, the market will be dominated by lemons: products that don't have to (and can't) complete on features and price, and are sold by "high-pressure tactics and obfuscation".

The difference between the mattress market and an idealized market dominated by asymmetric information in standard microeconomic theory is that most people aren't willing to take the option that standard economics recommends for such a situation: don't buy at all. Most people consider a mattress to be a necessary purchase, not optional, so they have to just do the best they can in a highly imperfect market. (Similar remarks apply to, e.g., the used car market: most people who are shopping for a used car are doing it because they have to--they need a car and can't afford a new one.) Many other possible markets which would be dominated by asymmetric information if they existed, simply don't exist, because people can choose not to participate.

Post reply on HN