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Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

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Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#181

Post by nemothekid »

ada1981 wrote: post #166

Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Favor After School Football Practice. Seriously, much of America is so entranced by high school football that entire district schedules are oriented around ensuring ample practice time after school. It determines bus schedules and school start times for the entire district and all students.

The article doesn't support that, it doesn't make sense for a vast majority of school districts - especially inner city ones.

Another commenter made more sense - early class times give parents time before work to prepare their kids for school. This football angle is ridiculous. If it were true, wouldn't colleges and universities suffer from the same standard?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#182

Post by isostatic »

adamnemecek wrote: post #69
VLM wrote: post #5

Do we like to tell ourselves the purpose of school is academics or athletics? If athletics, school must start as early as possible, so "away" outdoor games can be held outside in sunlight and "away" teams can get home at a reasonable hour. If academics, school should start as late as possible, so students (and instructors!) can do class prep immediately before class and/or sleep in. Its interesting that the only acce…

How could athletics be the purpose of school?

I think that's his point - the purpose of an early start is to allow athletics to thrive, the purpose of a late start is to allow academics to thrive.

The US have high schools with stadiums bigger than those in most towns in Europe, it's clear where your priorities lie.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#183

Post by Goronmon »

notheguyouthink wrote: post #87
devy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It starts this early so parents can get their kids to school and start working afterwards, without getting fired. As a working parent, totally agree. Employers should be more accommodating for working parents just like they do for maternity/paternity programs, but they haven't yet. Big corporations with HR and dedicated benefit personnels are more tolerable than most startups, unfortunately.

comment as been deleted, as much as HN can let me...

I downvoted you because it didn't seem productive to try to start an argument about why people are specifically talking about parents in the context of discussions specific to students and their parents.

And you felt it necessary to pretend that people are explicitly trying to give parent's special treatment over non-parents, which isn't something I've seen anyone in this thread argue for.

And now I've gone and derailed the discussion further and given you the argument you were looking for.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#184

Post by wizzard »

sudosteph wrote: post #56
endymi0n wrote: post #10

I used to have lots of problems getting up early and always championed later times. Growing up through my twenties, it was great seeing finally seeing more and more evidence for a later school start and I was hopeful for future teens. But it wasn't until my first kid that I finally understood that school doesn't start this early because it's good for the learning experience. It starts this early so parents can get th…

That makes sense to a degree, but it always killed me that in my school district had elementary school starting at 8:30, and high school at 7:15. They told us that it was to stagger the buses and give high schoolers time to work part-time jobs, but it was rough. Especially because the bus ride took another hour out of the morning. Also, most elementary schools around there offered before and after school programs tha…

> They told us that it was to stagger the buses and give high schoolers time to work part-time jobs

One additional reason is so that the older kids get home before the younger kids so they can supervise.

It's all perfectly rational. Unfortunately, ensuring students are rested and alert is far down on the list of priorities for education scheduling.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#185

Post by sjg007 »

matte_black wrote: post #178

This just sounds like more excuses. I know plenty of people who got to class at 7:30 AM on the dot and excelled with straight A's. I never had a problem. So what's different?

Some kids can do it. Some go to sleep earlier and wake up refreshed. Some don't, it's biological that's all. I wish I'd gone to bed earlier in high school but I was wired to stay up late. Same in college. It wasn't until I started working that I got to bed earlier. And after having kids man I can go to bed at 8pm easy.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#186

Post by sjg007 »

jzymbaluk wrote: post #179
PeterStuer wrote: post #173

I used to be a typical 'owl' as a student and when I worked in research. My peak performance hour were from 10pm to 4am. When you get kids and an 'industry' job, that isn't an option. It took me about 7 years to switch. Now I'm a true morning person. Best hours are now from 6am to 2pm. Afternoons are horror though. I can barely stay awake 2pm - 5pm.

How did you make that switch? I'm having a lot of trouble in the transition from night owl to early bird and I could use any advice I can get

Go to bed earlier and wake up earlier. Force yourself up. Also exercise can help in the morning.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#187

Post by btkramer9 »

endymi0n wrote: post #10

I used to have lots of problems getting up early and always championed later times. Growing up through my twenties, it was great seeing finally seeing more and more evidence for a later school start and I was hopeful for future teens. But it wasn't until my first kid that I finally understood that school doesn't start this early because it's good for the learning experience. It starts this early so parents can get th…

Why do parents need to take their kids to school? I always walked to the school bus, no parents necessary

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#188

Post by sjg007 »

nategri wrote: post #161

Might go a little ways toward explaining how I got a D the grading period integrals were introduced in my 7:30am AP Calc class, yet still ended up as a physics PhD.

I was saved by the AP exams. Basically the teachers would retroactively give an A if you got a 4 or bette (might of been a 5).

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#189

Post by jimmy1 »

btkramer9 wrote: post #187
endymi0n wrote: post #10

I used to have lots of problems getting up early and always championed later times. Growing up through my twenties, it was great seeing finally seeing more and more evidence for a later school start and I was hopeful for future teens. But it wasn't until my first kid that I finally understood that school doesn't start this early because it's good for the learning experience. It starts this early so parents can get th…

Why do parents need to take their kids to school? I always walked to the school bus, no parents necessary

For some, a bus simply doesn't exist. For others, there is legitimate concerns over the safety of their children -- I would not feel comfortable leaving my kindergartener or first grader walk to a bus stop almost half a mile away at essentially the wee hours of the morning when it is still dark outside.

If you are the kid who lives at the first stop, sometimes your bus time is as early as 5:55. I would never force my child to be up at 5 something to get ready for school. That is beyond ridiculous.

Finally, there are legitimate concerns over bullying. Kids are ruthless on the bus and is a real problem. When I attended high school almost two decades ago now -- fights, bullying, name-calling and harassing were common -- sometimes by the bus driver themselves! I can only imagine how much worse it is now.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#190

Post by yorwba »

maxerickson wrote: post #149
zanny wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Gallup in 2013 the median incomes in the US and UK were $15,500 and $12,400 adjusted. Considering that US citizens pay on average 10% of earnings on healthcare where the UK doesn't that makes it more akin to $14,000 vs $12,400. Except here is something you didn't know - that British citizen isn't paying income tax at all. Their 0% bracket goes all the way to about $16,000 USD Today. That US citizen is pa…

From http://news.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-househol... ? I would expect self reported income like that to be based on take home pay (so after taxes). And for many in the US, they will have health benefits that they don't include in the self reported figure (they may not even realize the amount their employer pays). That's hard to account for compared to the "everybody can use the NHS" included in the UK…

From your link: 'Gallup asked respondents in most countries the following question: "What is your total monthly household income in [local currency], before taxes? Please include income from wages and salaries, remittances from family members living elsewhere, farming, and all other sources. Again, please provide your total monthly household income."'
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