Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#21

Post by origami777 » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:09 PM UTC

forgotmypw wrote: post #11

goldenkey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this like saying macro-nutrients are all that matters? Pop a vitamin and eat slop made from grounding up all the animal parts? In theory it makes sense but we haven't even begun to understand the millions of different hydrocarbons in a small piece of meat. So there is an unscientific albeit widely believed statement about quality ingredients. There isn't legislation to make sure only X is allowed in a processed…

I'm not sure if you thought I was defending fast food. I was merely saying that most prepared food that is not "fast food" is not great either. I think that the best we can do today is approximate as closely as possible the diet (and lifestyle) we have been evolving for in the millions of years prior to industrial agriculture. To me, that means a diet of mainly plants and a little meat, mostly raw, some cooked with d…

Thanks for clarifying. That makes a ton of sense.

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#22

Post by AstralStorm » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

forgotmypw wrote: post #20

AstralStorm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And again, this miniscule phthalate level increases matters why? (Even cumulative.) Please answer with solid evidence of morbidity. Guardian did not do the homework. The studies on phthalates are quite tenuous for adults. There are a few which link to developmental problems. This is a very different case from children chewing on phthalate containing foams or sleeping in such. Which has been quite clearly linked. The…

Not sure what kind of agenda you are implying... Prematurely stop plastic use in food production/packaging before we are completely sure it affects our health negatively? All I know is that this is new, untested input into a 4-billion-year-old tangle of spaghetti code. If you are confident being the guinea pig, since "human health effects of phthalates are not yet fully known but are being studied," be my guest. * Di…

Note that high levels of the specific phthalate is of relevance to workers in plastic factories. There's really no way to get them that high up otherwise. For an adult of course. It is different for a newborn fed and hydrated by pvc tube.

I agree about potential carcinogen. How about actual carcinogen evidence though? Should be easy to get, scrutinize plastic workers.

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#23

Post by forgotmypw » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

origami777 wrote: post #19

forgotmypw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm including both corporate chains like TGIF and Chipotle, in addition to: * that sushi restaurant in the strip mall, that serves you rice cooked with fluoride water and soy sauce with sodium beonzoate * that "gourmet" deli that serves you sodium nitrate-laden on top of pesticide- and preservative-laden bread with a yellow #5 pickle. * that coffee shop that pours a hot beverage at 140F/60C into a plastic-lined, plas…

Are they really the same? It's hard for me to believe that. Seems like fast food chains would have the things you list + many other bad things.

It really is not that much different. Both are buying and reselling large quantities of standardized food products, the production and lifecycle of which are part of the problem.

The restaurant supply company is selling to dozens and hundreds of restaurants, so it is kind of like a fast food chain, just not under the same logo.

The restaurant needs twenty five-pound bags of prepared chicken every day. The supplier sources this chicken meat, spices, seasonings, and synthetic chemicals from a number of distributors, who source the components from a number of other suppliers, who eventually source them from the farms. The farms are producing for volume, so quality is not really in the picture, as long as it meets the inspection standards and government regulations.

It is not only the finished product, but also the sub-components, that spend days, months, sometimes years in the supply chain, being processed, preserved, and homogenized, and processed again.

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#24

Post by subpixel » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:14 PM UTC

In my office, I see seemingly reasonable white-collar employees regularly microwave their lunch in all sorts of flimsy plastic containers. I’m not even shocked anymore.

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#25

Post by a_t48 » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

forgotmypw wrote: post #23

origami777 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they really the same? It's hard for me to believe that. Seems like fast food chains would have the things you list + many other bad things.

It really is not that much different. Both are buying and reselling large quantities of standardized food products, the production and lifecycle of which are part of the problem. The restaurant supply company is selling to dozens and hundreds of restaurants, so it is kind of like a fast food chain, just not under the same logo. The restaurant needs twenty five-pound bags of prepared chicken every day. The supplier so…

This isn't a problem unique to restaurants, though - at some point you have to get your own ingredients from that supply chain unless you have the money or time to do otherwise.

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#26

Post by forgotmypw » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:39 PM UTC

AstralStorm wrote: post #22

forgotmypw wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what kind of agenda you are implying... Prematurely stop plastic use in food production/packaging before we are completely sure it affects our health negatively? All I know is that this is new, untested input into a 4-billion-year-old tangle of spaghetti code. If you are confident being the guinea pig, since "human health effects of phthalates are not yet fully known but are being studied," be my guest. * Di…

Note that high levels of the specific phthalate is of relevance to workers in plastic factories. There's really no way to get them that high up otherwise. For an adult of course. It is different for a newborn fed and hydrated by pvc tube. I agree about potential carcinogen. How about actual carcinogen evidence though? Should be easy to get, scrutinize plastic workers.

You seem to imply that this research has not already been carried out, or is non-obvious...

>The reinforced plastic plant workers showed, in terms of semen quality, better values in the percentages of live sperm and immotile sperm, whereas they had a reduced percentage of normally shaped sperm.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2980348

Source source: https://www.google.com/search?q=site:nih.gov+plastic+workers

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#27

Post by forgotmypw » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:40 PM UTC

a_t48 wrote: post #25

forgotmypw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is not that much different. Both are buying and reselling large quantities of standardized food products, the production and lifecycle of which are part of the problem. The restaurant supply company is selling to dozens and hundreds of restaurants, so it is kind of like a fast food chain, just not under the same logo. The restaurant needs twenty five-pound bags of prepared chicken every day. The supplier so…

This isn't a problem unique to restaurants, though - at some point you have to get your own ingredients from that supply chain unless you have the money or time to do otherwise.

Yes, you are correct.

Just like with software, you have to check and verify all the sources, or at least have someone do it for you. This may mean buying from the farmer's market, or going to the farm itself.

If you can't do that, you have to find a trustworthy supplier and take their word for it.

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#28

Post by ams6110 » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

LandR wrote: post #15

prepend wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? BurgerKing is certainly classified as a restaurant in Spain, France, and Italy. What do they call these places? I’m not sure how you validate such an absolute statement. My own travels had many examples of people in these countries using restaurant to refer to both fast food and sit down restaurants. There are thousands of web pages like this s one using restaurant to describe McDonalds in…

I'm in the UK and know no one who would call McDonalds or Burger King a restaurant. I wouldn't call TGIFriday a restaurant either.

What do you call them?

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#29

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:51 PM UTC

forgotmypw wrote: post #16

coldtea wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fast food chains make their food from prepared components that they buy in bulk through some sort of homogenized supply chain. So do most restaurants. Fast food chains involve a lot of plastic in their food preparation, even hot food and even while cooking. So do most restaurants. Fast food chains use food components that are optimized for shelf life, using whatever chemicals that the FDA said are "generally recogn…

I'm including both corporate chains like TGIF and Chipotle, in addition to: * that sushi restaurant in the strip mall, that serves you rice cooked with fluoride water and soy sauce with sodium beonzoate * that "gourmet" deli that serves you sodium nitrate-laden on top of pesticide- and preservative-laden bread with a yellow #5 pickle. * that coffee shop that pours a hot beverage at 140F/60C into a plastic-lined, plas…

> fluoride water

So... tap water? Most countries add flouride to their tap water because it improves dental health. Unless you're a redneck screaming about alien mind control, that isn't some crazy scary chemical compound.

> soy sauce with sodium beonzoate

*Sodium Benzoate

Again, perfectly boring salt that reduces pH. Not some scary mind control substance, just a salt you can produce at home.

> sodium nitrate-laden

Every preserved meat in the world. Also found naturally in Chile.

> pesticide- and preservative-laden bread

Pretty much been the case since humans found out about vinegar. I wouldn't call > yellow #5

You realize that was a myth that it would reduce your sperm count right? There is a segment of the population that has a sensitivity to it, but it's pretty small.

> heats up frozen soup in a plastic bag

Again, most plastics are rated for this. Also helps cut down on glass shards in your food, or badly sanitized cookware giving you the runs.

I'm sorry, but your points here aren't some ultimate "gotcha", they're just anti-scientific scaremongering. I'd tell you to stock up on tinfoil for those hats, but I heard that causes alzheimer's.

Re: Eating out increases levels of phthalates in the body, study finds

#30

Post by portofcall » Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:51 PM UTC

pluma wrote: post #2

Sounds like this is mostly about fast food chains, not restaurants in general. It also seems like this story should really be about calling out specific restaurants/chains for contaminated food, not presenting it as a general fact about restaurants.

It’s also always worth thinking about the health impact of eating a lot of restaurant/fast/chain food simply from a nutritional perspective. If you’re eating a double quarter pounder with cheese, fries and a soda, the actual food is by far the worst part of the experience. The carcinogenic and cardiovascular downsides of such a fatty, low fiber, high sugar and sodium diet are profound and well understood.

A friend of mine recently came to me with an article that a “chemical found in silly putty” was found in fry oil. They were horrified, but I pointed out that it’s known to be inert. They were still horrified. I pointed out that to get a mg of the stuff, you’d have to eat half a kilogram of fry oil (not a kg of fries, but oil). If you’re packing in half s kilo of grease, it’s not the mg of additive you should be worried about!