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China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

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Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#81

Post by saiya-jin »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #70
tomcooks wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an engineer but, if your infrastructure is that old first of all I'd focus on maintenance, rather than having dick measuring contests with countries that have questionable attitudes towards pollution, safety and nature.

The condition of the roads and infrastructure in a large part of the US is very, very bad when compared to countries like the Netherlands. It’s like the US is a superpower with third world infrastructure.

If road conditions would be the only attribute of modern society that US puts in 3rd world country bracket - but there is poor state of public education and healthcare, ridiculous prison state, very real police state, whole corporation/cash-oriented legislature compared to citizen-oriented like in Europe (often EU has to be the one fining/limiting US corporations when they don't give a fuck about human decency and moral behavior). Plus your taxes directly sponsor killing of hundreds of thousands innocents and pushing tens of millions into miserable life and making whole parts of this tiny little blue planet unstable for generations. Add semi-caste system in many parts based on your net worth. Real freedom is much lower too.

Compared to EU, it's a great place to start/do business or just be really rich, but can be pretty miserable to be a regular human & employee.

Sometimes I think the only remaining things that US shines with is the military power, high level of some universities and financial power from USD. All results of successes in 20th century and nothing China can't surpass if they decide to (and they the necessary ingredients - patience and focus).

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#83

Post by tim333 »

ggm wrote: post #12

Excluding systems which put water into the air, Atmospheric water is a zero sum game AFAIK so if this causes rain to fall where the Chinese want it, somebody else misses out. Freshwater from high mountains in the India/China region is a hot topic. They're running out of glaciers.

It's not fully zero sum - the air that water is taken out of gets humid again when it goes over the sea.

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#84

Post by tomcooks »

arien wrote: post #78
spiderfarmer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The condition of the roads and infrastructure in a large part of the US is very, very bad when compared to countries like the Netherlands. It’s like the US is a superpower with third world infrastructure.

Maintenance of old infrastructure in large projects is difficult and budget for this purpose is hard to justify, while building new things gets harder due to (self imposed) new regulations and higher costs (outsourcing might be cheaper, but always has some risks...). I don't know, sounds very familiar :)

While I agree with you 101% I think that politics play a huge factor on this: no administration wants to do its homeworks, only for the next one to profit from the shiny new infrastructure.

I believe this is a stronger factor in countries that have a maximum amount of mandates per administration.

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#85

Post by dbatten »

ggm wrote: post #12

Excluding systems which put water into the air, Atmospheric water is a zero sum game AFAIK so if this causes rain to fall where the Chinese want it, somebody else misses out. Freshwater from high mountains in the India/China region is a hot topic. They're running out of glaciers.

Came here to ask if this was a zero sum game (verbatim, actually). So, thanks for this.

Given how much human conflict has erupted over access to rivers and other water sources, I can't imagine it will go well if a lot of countries start to do this at scale...

It's also fascinating how we muck-up water management in seemingly contradictory ways. I live in a temperate climate with a good amount of rainfall, but my town is already jockeying with its neighbors for the last remaining access points on the local water reservoir. Meanwhile, every time we get a heavy downpour, local creeks overflow due to excessive runoff from parking lots and what not and end up flooding all kinds of places (the local mall floods pretty much once every year or two, it seems). Fascinating how we can have not enough fresh water and too much fresh water all at the same time.

Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#86

Post by tim333 »

>The chambers burn solid fuel to produce silver iodide

seems a little off - most fuel doesn't contain silver or iodine. I expect what happens is the put silver iodide on the fuel and then they heat produced causes it to rise up in the manner of a hot air balloon.

Incidentally silver iodide seems to cost $300-$500 / kg but you don't need very much of it

Wikipedia has "Approximately 50,000 kg are used for cloud seeding annually, each seeding experiment consuming 10–50 grams."

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#87

Post by raarts »

sgc wrote: post #75
RobertoG wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I though the problem in USA for getting things done with infrastructure was the deficit hysteria, not the regulations and the outrage. Was I wrong?

I think it's mainly that construction costs in the US are extremely high and it's not affordable in many locations.

Are those costs higher than in other developed countries? If so, why?

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#88

Post by bryondowd »

rgbrenner wrote: post #37
thinkloop wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That too, although solar still has relatively high costs per watt. Fusion can make energy nearly free.

No, fusion wont make energy nearly free. Let's pretend a fusion plant is completely free to build, maintain, operate, and decommission. 50% of the cost of electricity is from transmission and distribution. Those costs aren't going anywhere. So at most, you'll get a 50% savings. But you're not getting that either, because that fusion plant definitely wont be free.

Well, if transmission charges factor in losses during transmission, then the generation cost would influence some part of the transmission cost. If generation was an order of magnitude cheaper, then presumably the amount of power lost between the generator and the end user would cost a negligible amount, whereas I would assume it's currently a good chunk of your distribution costs.

ianaEE

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#89

Post by dx034 »

fspeech wrote: post #39
rgbrenner wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, fusion wont make energy nearly free. Let's pretend a fusion plant is completely free to build, maintain, operate, and decommission. 50% of the cost of electricity is from transmission and distribution. Those costs aren't going anywhere. So at most, you'll get a 50% savings. But you're not getting that either, because that fusion plant definitely wont be free.

For the purported usage (desalination) distribution is not an issue. But obviously fusion generated electricity won't be free, though marginal cost of production may approach that (if it ever becomes a reality).

But for AC, you have both distribution and variable demand. Not sure how easy fusion plants will be able to react to demand. If they're like nuclear plants, you'll need a sizeable amount of peaker capacity as well (not that solar wouldn't need that).

Re: China Is Building a Rain-Making System Three Times as Big as Spain

#90

Post by AlexC04 » 

     Under the guidelines of the Clean Water Act by the 
     EPA, silver iodide is considered a hazardous 
     substance, a priority pollutant, and as a toxic 
     pollutant.(10) Some industries have learned this all 
     too well. ... If the toxicity manifests in pollution 
     and illnesses, the effects may not be reversible ...
http://www.ranches.org/cloudseedingharmful.htm

So.... this doesn't seem like the best idea.

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