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61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

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Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#131

Post by jrs95 »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #28

This also sounds like a great way to cut out "undesirables". The women can be 'given' social roles and kept out of the tech areas, and minorities are never allowed the 3 years experience. Yeah, its jaded. I've been around the block a few times. Of course nobody outright says these things. They never really have to. The policies enforce those decisions.

This is really absurd, most HR people in this field would go out of their way to hire the demographics you mention.

Plus, those years of experience requirements are dumb and nobody, not even large corporations, even enforces them in my experience. The closest thing you'll get to having this kind of requirement be enforced is people that are sticklers for college degrees.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#133

Post by vokep »

pagnol wrote: post #46
jamestimmins wrote: post #27

The buried lede here seems to be "In real life, folks need to apply to 150-250 jobs to get a job". I'd be so, so interested to see the breakdown here, and what causes these types of numbers. Are there just enormous numbers of applicants for every job? Are people applying for jobs they aren't qualified for? How does this compare in tech vs the rest of the job market? The signal/noise ratio must be absurdly low if this…

I've similarly always struggled to make sense of these kinds of claims, because in my life so far I was offered a job every time I applied, so I'm wondering if I'm either living in an area where the job market is much less competitive or if I'm aiming too low. It's out of the question that I'm some kind of hotshot, on the contrary my CV is a mess and I dropped out ouf college.

I think its a mix of different perspectives. Theres people like you and myself who hear all this about applying to hundreds of jobs and it sounds absurd. For you it sounds like this is because you got lucky enough to not even need to look. Then theres those who apply to hundreds of jobs and then wonder why they don't get many responses.

Something to note there is, how much attention is being paid to each listing. For the jobs you've applied and gotten, you probably were a really great fit.

Having reached a point of being on the other side, looking for people to hire, I think there are really warped perceptions all around. If your hiring, you aren't swamped with great candidates but with resumes. Basically, most resumes go in the trash, but because most of them are hollow, there was nothing there to start. If you're actually skilled and can demonstrate it in any way then its far easier to find a job. I think most of the people who apply to 200+ jobs to get one either are not skilled or don't know how to demonstrate that they are.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#134

Post by koolba »

whorleater wrote: post #56
hayksaakian wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Yes. Any job with entry level requirements will get 20-100 applications on craigslist in seattle (my experience). More or less applications on more or less popular platforms 2) Yes. Half or more of the applications I've reviewed are totally unqualified. Either they ignored the requirements or fudge it and flop on the interview. 3) Tech has even more noise than my personal experience due to higher pay scales and in…

>without any personal interest / passion in technology Can I not work in tech without being passionate?

Yes but you have to be able to fake it for at least the duration of an interview.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#135

Post by godelski »

hayksaakian wrote: post #40
jamestimmins wrote: post #27

The buried lede here seems to be "In real life, folks need to apply to 150-250 jobs to get a job". I'd be so, so interested to see the breakdown here, and what causes these types of numbers. Are there just enormous numbers of applicants for every job? Are people applying for jobs they aren't qualified for? How does this compare in tech vs the rest of the job market? The signal/noise ratio must be absurdly low if this…

1) Yes. Any job with entry level requirements will get 20-100 applications on craigslist in seattle (my experience). More or less applications on more or less popular platforms 2) Yes. Half or more of the applications I've reviewed are totally unqualified. Either they ignored the requirements or fudge it and flop on the interview. 3) Tech has even more noise than my personal experience due to higher pay scales and in…

> 2) Yes. Half or more of the applications I've reviewed are totally unqualified. Either they ignored the requirements or fudge it and flop on the interview.

I mean if you are calling something "entry level position" and have "requires 3 years experience in the field", I'd expect people to apply anyway. I remember when I was fresh out of college all the entry positions I saw required several years of experience. If you don't apply to those positions then you really aren't applying to anything.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#136

Post by reificator »

hayksaakian wrote: post #40
jamestimmins wrote: post #27

The buried lede here seems to be "In real life, folks need to apply to 150-250 jobs to get a job". I'd be so, so interested to see the breakdown here, and what causes these types of numbers. Are there just enormous numbers of applicants for every job? Are people applying for jobs they aren't qualified for? How does this compare in tech vs the rest of the job market? The signal/noise ratio must be absurdly low if this…

1) Yes. Any job with entry level requirements will get 20-100 applications on craigslist in seattle (my experience). More or less applications on more or less popular platforms 2) Yes. Half or more of the applications I've reviewed are totally unqualified. Either they ignored the requirements or fudge it and flop on the interview. 3) Tech has even more noise than my personal experience due to higher pay scales and in…

I don't ignore requirements or fudge them, but I do interpret them based on what they want done.

If they want 10 years of Ruby/Rails experience with a focus on performance/scalability, maybe your 5 years of Python/Django is not applicable.

But if they want 3 years of Ruby/Rails experience and you've got 5 years of Python/Django, and feel comfortable with the transition to Ruby, absolutely you should apply for that position.

Be upfront about it and be prepared to demonstrate your ability, but that's what the interview is supposed to be about in the first place.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#138

Post by reificator »

orangeshark wrote: post #59
pagnol wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've similarly always struggled to make sense of these kinds of claims, because in my life so far I was offered a job every time I applied, so I'm wondering if I'm either living in an area where the job market is much less competitive or if I'm aiming too low. It's out of the question that I'm some kind of hotshot, on the contrary my CV is a mess and I dropped out ouf college.

From my personal experience in the entry level job market, I have never successfully gotten a job offer to anything I applied to. Only have my current job because a friend recommended me.

If that's your first job and you can hold it down for awhile, then I think your next job hunt will go better.

Especially if you start the next job hunt while still employed. That's an important signal to your employer, that someone else was willing to hire you. It also helps to ensure you're not desperate, because your next paycheck is not hinging on the current interview.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#139

Post by toyg »

outworlder wrote: post #53
Spooky23 wrote: post #13

It’s not jobs, it’s job postings. You need to demonstrate that no candidates with skills are available to get a visa waiver. It’s called compliance advertising. There’s a whole industry of body shops that do this stuff and collude on rates. The folks they hire are the foot soldiers of banks and government.

This kind of job ad is seen in other countries as well, not just the US, even ones where foreign applicants are really uncommon.

It's not limited to visa-cheating; in certain industries, you have to advertise the position even if you already know who you're going to hire. Look at the backpages of publications like The Economist - do you really think huge companies will find a CEO or Senior Executive with a magazine ad? Of course not.

Re: 61% of “Entry-Level” Jobs Require 3+ Years of Experience

#140

Post by vokep »

aviraldg wrote: post #32
williamscales wrote: post #15

If you go to college and do an internship or research fellowship each summer, you will come out with "3 years" of experience.

Does internship experience really count though, in terms of requirements listed on job descriptions?

none of it really counts. What really counts is your skills and ability to confidently talk about them. Or put differently, its your choice if internship or whatever experience really counts. You also have to convince the prospective employer to respect your choice, but if you can confidently represent yourself that may be easier than you think.
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