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Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

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Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#241

I think the thesis is wrong here. Google has a striking history of removing bias against black women. People make content for the web. People are racist, and make lots of racist assumptions in their writing. Society is racist. This results in Google's algorithms reflecting the corpus they scanned, and the searches that are made. But the search is just a reflection of us, and how terrible we all are. Google gets embar…

You’re missing the point, which is that you’re dealing with a coupled system (in the physics sense). Google reflects our racism, but exposure to that racism on the first page of results makes us more racist. Google concentrates it and reflects it back to us. (Google does this with everything else as well. What do people think of the new MacBook Pro? Searching for reviews will immediately spit back a concentrated and…

What's more sinister--Google accurately reflecting the gist of the content and information available on the web, or Google carefully scrubbing it to better reflect a chosen set of cultural sensitivities?

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#242
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there's too much blame-the-algorithm sentiment here, but if I had to guess, I'd think the author would argue that these racist biases should and could have been caught before going into production -- i.e. it doesn't have to be an inevitable cycle of ad hoc public shaming and repentance. These biases could be identified just as other SERP problems are identified before each algorithm update. Just like the…

> I'd think the author would argue that these racist biases should and could have been caught before going into production I think people who believe this significantly underestimate the difficulty of solving these problems.

I'd argue that most of the 'algorithms are evil' crowd don't even understand the problem to begin with since many of them do not come from a technical background.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#243
post #148
post #59

This is a much harder problem that it looks to a casual observer. Just imagine what kind of people would type "black girls" to Google search. Not "black girls outfit", not "black girls social bias", just "black girls". I'll bet at least 50% of the searchers are looking for porn. So even if Google had infinite resources, its choices are: (1) act as a moral authority and deny pornographic contents to those who are look…

I wish the article had included screen shots of search results for "white girls" and "Asian girls". Would there be any less porn? I strongly doubt it.

To do these kinds of tests reasonably, you need to do it from an incognito window or private browsing and clear all history between every search.

Even that might not be enough to get the original results, as there are also signals based on location.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#244
post #115
post #32

I’m always amazed how often the “surprise” that digital technology is in fact not unbiased and robotic in nature keeps getting written about. Algorithms that optimize for click through rate for ads and search relevancy will inevitably be a reflection of ourselves and all of the shitty things various people believe. >> What we know about Google’s responses to racial stereotyping in its products is that it typically de…

> I’m always amazed how often the “surprise” that digital technology is in fact not unbiased and robotic in nature keeps getting written about. Algorithms that optimize for click through rate for ads and search relevancy will inevitably be a reflection of ourselves and all of the shitty things various people believe. What you just observed and described is that technology _is_ unbiased and robotic. The bias is in the…

> You can't remove it with a software bandage

Turns out you can. It just takes effort.

And you should, because amplifying shitty things about people is not the ideal state of software.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#245
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there's too much blame-the-algorithm sentiment here, but if I had to guess, I'd think the author would argue that these racist biases should and could have been caught before going into production -- i.e. it doesn't have to be an inevitable cycle of ad hoc public shaming and repentance. These biases could be identified just as other SERP problems are identified before each algorithm update. Just like the…

> I'd think the author would argue that these racist biases should and could have been caught before going into production I think people who believe this significantly underestimate the difficulty of solving these problems.

I don't understand. Can't these and other sample search terms be added to the regression tests before new versions of the algorithm are deployed? Then you'd likely see the errors in time to correct them.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re missing the point, which is that you’re dealing with a coupled system (in the physics sense). Google reflects our racism, but exposure to that racism on the first page of results makes us more racist. Google concentrates it and reflects it back to us. (Google does this with everything else as well. What do people think of the new MacBook Pro? Searching for reviews will immediately spit back a concentrated and…

What's more sinister--Google accurately reflecting the gist of the content and information available on the web, or Google carefully scrubbing it to better reflect a chosen set of cultural sensitivities?

> Google accurately reflecting the gist of the content and information available on the web

I wouldn't assume that Google's search results reflect anything but an attempt to bring you back by showing you results you find valuable, and to monetize your visit.

> scrubbing it to better reflect a chosen set of cultural sensitivities?

Google (and any other mass market vendor) removes a lot of things that people don't want to see, including scams, X-rated content, brutality, etc. People searching for information on their dog don't want to see bestiality. These aren't arbitrarily chosen preferences or mere "sensitivities", but social norms which in many cases have a strong moral foundation.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'd like some search service that shows me what's accurately out there. If there's content out there about somebody being a "miserable failure" or Holocaust denial, I want to see it. I mean, what good is a search service that doesn't show what's there? If I don't want to see whatever results are useless or offensive, I'll do my own filtering. But then, I grew up on searching the scientific literature using Scie…

The Science Citation Index and LexisNexis already do most of the filtering for you by not including absolute unmitigated garbage that happens to be perfectly optimised for your search keywords. You might find the odd David Irving article in there, but you haven't got Stormfront trying to citation-bomb all holocaust related terms for the lolz, never mind commercial blogspam. And Google also works on the assumption mos…

I can't imagine that Science Citation Index excludes stuff from the literature. But it's been a while since I used it. Perhaps they drop "absolute unmitigated garbage". Or that they neglect to index obscure journals.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second paragraph explains why Google, the search tool, has a striking history of bias against black women, by stating "search is a reflection of [..] how terrible we are". Your third paragraph explains that Google, the company, spends time and money on correcting bias. I don't think that's news to the author, or a refutation. She says tech companies produce tools in environments of racism/sexism, without proper…

I didn't see that comment as excusing anything. I think we all agree Google should do as much as possible to improve results. But at the same time, if Google gets it right 99 times out of 100, the 100th is what will get an article like this written on it. That doesn't excuse that, it explains why it happens. > Your second paragraph explains why Google, the search tool, has a striking history of bias against black wom…

> if Google gets it right 99 times out of 100, the 100th is what will get an article like this written on it

Is there any substantive basis for this claim? My impression is that Google gets away with a lot.

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#249
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Racism" involves prejudice and discrimination predicated on the belief that one race is superior/inferior to another. If a face-detection algorithm fails to easily recognize black or Asian faces, such that people of that ethnicity/race have to go through a more manual/friction-laden process (think manual pat-downs and searches from TSA) to be verified as "human" or "citizen", then how is that algorithm not responsib…

Of course those systems 'discriminate', that is what they are designed for. The problems aren't with the system, but with how they were set up, implemented or tested. Say you make a sensor that is supposed to tell the difference between blue, green and purple, but you only test with one shade of blue and maybe two shades of green, you are going to have trouble actually matching your design goals. In the case of the f…

> If you don't have a broad selection of faces to test with, you shouldn't claim you have 'face detection', since you merely have 'detection of faces of the people that work on the project plus anyone who looks like them'.

Yeah, but that's what happened here with HP in 2009. I'm not a huge fan of their products these days but I don't think they would intentionally be deceptive here, i.e. I think there's a lot of room to blame incompetence before malice. If HP is a company with very few black employees, this kind of consideration may be completely off their radar. It's super unfortunate, but I don't see the company as evil or maliciously racist, per se (I think we can skip retreading the hiring for diversity debates for now).

> This would be a completely different story if someone writing the face matching code specifically programmed code or wrote configuration data that targets skin tone or geometry of specific groups of people.

Why does it matter? What's the difference between an algorithm that fails to perform because of programmer incompetence, or programmer malice? What's the difference to the end-user if the programmer was plain ignorant of good testing coverage, vs. a programmer who thought "Fuck it, minorities are a minor part of our user base. Not worth the extra engineering effort!"?

Technology is an unavoidable part of the problem. Because it is the technology that allows us the power and freedom to create and apply scalable algorithms to machinery and computers. This automation allows for efficient and reliable decision-making, and we as a society decide where that automation is appropriate and worthwhile, i.e. where human agency is no longer needed.

But technology and its fundamentals are still a key factor. Creating a multi-racial face classifier is fundamentally more work and difficulty than one trained for just one race. The math and physics are unavoidable. And every engineered system and product has to make tradeoffs between production cost and feature set.

In the case of the light-skin-optimized HP web cam, I think it's important, and fine, to call it "racist" -- a black HP customer will have an inferior experience fundamentally because he is racially black. But this isn't just a way to quickly assign blame. Recognizing that tech is fundamentally limited is the first step in understanding that systemic racism (e.g., all the decisions that led to the "racist" camera) could be a contributing factor to the camera's substandard performance.

Much harder to get to that thinking if we have a mentality of, "how could the computer be wrong/flawed?"

Re: Google Has a Striking History of Bias Against Black Girls

#250
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google Search is arguably just a mirror. And ideally, that's what it should be. I disagree this is the ideal. The first implementation of PageRank makes a very big assumption: that people who write webpages and control websites can be trusted to link to worthwhile content. If webmasters and web producers skew a certain way, then PageRank/BackRub will also skew that way. Google original mission statement was "to org…

No, Google does not try to mirror content. It tries to provide the best results for users. Results the user wants to click on and are relevant. Searching for "professor style", nobody wants it to return a minority professor style. Even she doesn't, at scale. If she and others did, they'd be Googling "professor style", not clicking, then Googling "professor style for black women" and results would improve/personalize.…

> Ditto for "black girls": either your looking for porn or for stock photos. What other intentions do you have with such a query?

Consider the possibility that the user is a black girl, or her parent. Generally, I'm careful not to assume I can anticipate the perspectives of everyone else.

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