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Lyft commits to closing wage gaps across race and gender

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Re: Lyft commits to closing wage gaps across race and gender

#41

Post by vkou »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #37
vkou wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also incredibly less likely to be raped, be the victim of domestic abuse from my partner, pressured by my boss for sex, have my qualifications questioned over my gender, low-balled on offers, negatively evaluated for expressing 'masculine' traits in the workplace, be low-balled on hiring offers, have my career suffer because of fears that I'll have a child and take paternity leave, should I keep going..? The natu…

Being killed or locked in prison (where the likelihood of rape skyrockets) seems objectively worse than any of those things, does it not? Why is it that you are so eager to ignore the inequalities against men in favor of women?

It's great that we're talking about prison. If you're a black man, you are seven times more likely to be incarcerated then a white man. Five times more likely to be arrested for drug possession, despite similar rates of drug use. 30% more likely to be jailed before your trial. 150% more likely to be searched at a traffic stop.

Since you're placing so much emphasis on prison, as worse then any of the things I listed, it sounds like you you should agree that white privilege is a huge problem.

But let's take a step back. Since I'm a white man, my odds of being incarcerated are ~1/100. Small chance of that. If I were a woman, however, I'd be dealing with the problems I listed in my previous post all the time.

Read my posts. Nowhere did I ignore that inequalities in both directions exist. What I take issue with is people blowing the inequalities that disadvantage white men out of proportion. Almost all the gender-particular problems they have, men of color have, with a second and third helping.

Re: Lyft commits to closing wage gaps across race and gender

#42

Post by troupe »

lallysingh wrote: post #31
troupe wrote: post #7

I'm curious how they determined that the 1% of cases were gender and race-based and not something else. With such a small number, it seems like it would be very easy for the variations to be caused by other factors. It is probably good PR for them, but the math behind the decision would be pretty interesting.

1% of a large number is still a large number.

Yes, but with a small enough number you might be able to find that people with blue eyes are paid more than people with brown eyes. You'd expect some level of random variation and such a small number makes it seem that it may really not have anything to do with their gender.

Think of it this way. If you flipped a coin a large number of times and 51% of the times it came up heads would you assume the coin was biased or would you suspect that it could just be random variation?

Re: Lyft commits to closing wage gaps across race and gender

#43

Post by wu-ikkyu »

vkou wrote: post #41
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being killed or locked in prison (where the likelihood of rape skyrockets) seems objectively worse than any of those things, does it not? Why is it that you are so eager to ignore the inequalities against men in favor of women?

It's great that we're talking about prison. If you're a black man, you are seven times more likely to be incarcerated then a white man. Five times more likely to be arrested for drug possession, despite similar rates of drug use. 30% more likely to be jailed before your trial. 150% more likely to be searched at a traffic stop. Since you're placing so much emphasis on prison, as worse then any of the things I listed,…

I agree with virtually everything you have said, but I am still sensing an implicit prejudice towards men.

You claim to take issue with people blowing inequalities out of proportion:

>What I take issue with is people blowing the inequalities that disadvantage white men out of proportion.

And yet that is exactly what you just did, by cherry picking one of the "lesser" problems men face (disproportionate incarceration), ignoring the others (higher probability of getting killed), and then using hyperbole ("all the time") in favor of women:

>Since I'm a white man, my odds of being incarcerated are ~1/100. Small chance of that. If I were a woman, however, I'd be dealing with the problems I listed in my previous post all the time.

Re: Lyft commits to closing wage gaps across race and gender

#44

Post by jinushaun »

cbhl wrote: post #30
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #25

The central variable that creates the "gender pay gap" is not sexist employer discrimination. The gap is primarily created by the fact that women, more typically than men, are the ones who raise children full time. https://www.creators.com/read/thomas-sowell/04/14/statistica...

Yes, we should also be advocating for better paternity leave policies, so that men can take a bigger role in child care. However, that does not mean companies shouldn't audit pay across race and gender, controlling for job role, level and performance. Nor does it mean companies shouldn't audit performance reviews for inequity. Nor does it mean companies shouldn't audit job role and level and promotion processes for i…

No amount of “better” paternity leave will ever mean that I will be able to birth and nurse a child myself. (First time dad here of a 5 month old) Nor do I require extra time off before the birth. Fathers don’t have this issue because they don’t lose time giving birth and recovering no matter how involved they are in taking care of the kid after birth. This lost time is unavoidable for working moms.

Even in countries with generous leave policy, this lost time is unrecoverable and has a permanent affect on your career. For example, in Italy the mother is forced to take a year off whether they want to or not. That’s one year less of a promotion or pay raise.

Time is money and time not working is time not earning money. These are real obstacles women face in the workforce that drive down their earning potential. Successful women either choose to not have children, or earn enough to pay someone else to care for their children full time.

Re: Lyft commits to closing wage gaps across race and gender

#45

Post by hudon »

ghettoimp wrote: post #26
hudon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a wildly sexist and racist sentiment. Do you have any evidence that being a white man causes you to have greater opportunities?

Uh... yes? Are you seriously proposing that our society doesn't give white men more opportunities than minorities and women? Or that they don't have to deal with shit that white men don't have to? (If so I'd recommend the podcasts Reveal, Scene on Radio, Us and Them, and so forth.)

I'm asking for evidence that "being a white man causes you to have greater opportunities". If you can't provide that but you're only going to provide additional outrage, you're not really adding to the discussion.

Re: Lyft commits to closing wage gaps across race and gender

#46

Post by ghettoimp »

hudon wrote: post #45
ghettoimp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh... yes? Are you seriously proposing that our society doesn't give white men more opportunities than minorities and women? Or that they don't have to deal with shit that white men don't have to? (If so I'd recommend the podcasts Reveal, Scene on Radio, Us and Them, and so forth.)

I'm asking for evidence that "being a white man causes you to have greater opportunities". If you can't provide that but you're only going to provide additional outrage, you're not really adding to the discussion.

Pretty sure I added more than whatever "outrage" you are inferring from my comment with my podcast suggestions.

Here's a recent Reveal episode where they discuss how banks won't lend to black folks:

https://www.revealnews.org/article/for-people-of-color-banks...

Of course unequal lending and housing opportunities go back in time forever, with huge consequences for, e.g., the wealth that white vs. black families have been able to accumulate over time, since houses are most folks' biggest assets.

Here's a recent Scene on Radio episode where they discuss the long history of federal programs that benefit whites and exclude blacks, etc. Of course you should really listen to the rest of the series for context:

https://documentarystudies.duke.edu/podcasts/white-affirmati...

This is actually really interesting stuff to learn about, if you'd care to.

Re: Lyft commits to closing wage gaps across race and gender

#47

Post by hudon »

ghettoimp wrote: post #46
hudon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm asking for evidence that "being a white man causes you to have greater opportunities". If you can't provide that but you're only going to provide additional outrage, you're not really adding to the discussion.

Pretty sure I added more than whatever "outrage" you are inferring from my comment with my podcast suggestions. Here's a recent Reveal episode where they discuss how banks won't lend to black folks: https://www.revealnews.org/article/for-people-of-color-banks... Of course unequal lending and housing opportunities go back in time forever, with huge consequences for, e.g., the wealth that white vs. black families have…

I was referring to: "Uh... yes?", "Are you seriously proposing [...]", "deal with shit". Thanks for the study, I'll check it out.
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