Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts • Hacker News Board

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#111

Post by lovelearning » Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

paulie_a wrote: post #65

lovelearning wrote: post #22

I don't see much value in trying to use logical speculation to generalize such behaviors to an entire species. Anybody who has observed animals and pets will have noticed how each and every animal has its own personality, likes, dislikes and peculiarities. Just like people, who, despite our airs, are just another species. Some of my pets eat people food which my other pets don't even look at. Some of them play with b…

> vegetarian cat Aka animal abuse

Given the context of his life and the views he expresses about animals in his vlogs, I strongly disagree.

> The man takes in rescue dogs, cats, monkeys and (in the past) even a handicapped illtreated tiger. He has some 40-50 pets in his home. There's even a video where he rescues a rat from being eaten by one of his cats, and releases it outside.

> He has offered that cat multiple varieties of cat food and meat in many videos. He himself has expressed concern that it's not eating the proteins it needs. If an animal refuses to eat food that is otherwise good quality and relished by all its friends, how can it be animal abuse?

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#112

Post by dang » Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #69

If animal milk is vegetarian then it doesn't mean anything.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16696565 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#113

Post by lovelearning » Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

nugi wrote: post #99

tomcooks wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read comments you'll notice the cat is one of a group of non vegetarians, and is offered alternatives which it refused. On top of that the cat might also catch mice, lizards or birds while the owner is away.

Still animal abuse to deliberately malnurish your pets. Don't excuse abuse for ego reasons.

There is no deliberate malnourishment. Repeating the comment I wrote above...

Given the context of his life and the views he expresses about animals in his vlogs, I strongly disagree.

> The man takes in rescue dogs, cats, monkeys and (in the past) even a handicapped illtreated tiger. He has some 40-50 pets in his home. There's even a video where he rescues a rat from being eaten by one of his cats, and releases it outside.

> He has offered that cat multiple varieties of cat food and meat in many videos. He himself has expressed concern that it's not eating the proteins it needs. If an animal refuses to eat food that is otherwise good quality and relished by all its friends, how can it be animal abuse?

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#114

Post by blacksmith_tb » Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

cimmanom wrote: post #51

nitrogen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...a pure vegetarian pet cat... How does the cat obtain whatever missing nutrients cause most cats to be obligate carnivores?

And it's not just that cats have to eat meat to get nutrients they need. Their systems aren't able to process significant amounts of carbohydrates at all. A cat consuming more than a couple grams of carbs per day will develop kidney disease extremely quickly.

That seems too low a threshold - lots of cheap cat food (esp. chow/kibble) has much higher levels of carbs, and while I am sure they aren't great for cats, there also doesn't seem to be an epidemic of feline kidney failure...

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#115

Post by HankB99 » Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 6:59 PM UTC

lovelearning wrote: post #22

I don't see much value in trying to use logical speculation to generalize such behaviors to an entire species. Anybody who has observed animals and pets will have noticed how each and every animal has its own personality, likes, dislikes and peculiarities. Just like people, who, despite our airs, are just another species. Some of my pets eat people food which my other pets don't even look at. Some of them play with b…

Our kids have a corgi that eats corn cobs (leftovers when we have corn on the cob.) I guess he sees the horses eating them and is convinced they must be good. Perhaps it is an acquired taste.

He once got into serious trouble by eating some medicated grain intended for the horses.

He still eats regular dog food too.

I think the elephant is just picking up something dusty. Maybe there's salt in it.

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#116

Post by dllthomas » Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 7:04 PM UTC

threepipeproblm wrote: post #109

kerkeslager wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your concern, but I feel quite okay with everything I've said on this topic. If you think force-feeding meat to an animal that doesn't want it is less abusive than letting them get meat by hunting if they want to, you're welcome to that very strange opinion.

I'm sorry, but describing the diet that scientists literally describe as "obligate" for cats as somehow being forced on them requires mental gymnastics I can't quite comprehend.

It's been stated elsewhere that the cat is provided with meat and does not eat it. The difference between that and making the cat eat it is quite reasonably described as "forced".

That said, it seems to be noted elsewhere the cat eats presumably-non-vegetarian kibble.

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#117

Post by cimmanom » Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 11:09 PM UTC

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #114

cimmanom wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's not just that cats have to eat meat to get nutrients they need. Their systems aren't able to process significant amounts of carbohydrates at all. A cat consuming more than a couple grams of carbs per day will develop kidney disease extremely quickly.

That seems too low a threshold - lots of cheap cat food (esp. chow/kibble) has much higher levels of carbs, and while I am sure they aren't great for cats, there also doesn't seem to be an epidemic of feline kidney failure...

Actually, there is. It's among the most common causes of death for domestic cats ([1] says the second most common). It's been what killed most of the cats I've ever known (notable exceptions being two that got hit by cars and the one who, no kidding, died of mercury poisoning after being fed nothing but canned tuna her entire life).

[1] http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2015/03/longevity-causes-of-death-i...

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#118

Post by techdreamer » Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

dllthomas wrote: post #116

threepipeproblm wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but describing the diet that scientists literally describe as "obligate" for cats as somehow being forced on them requires mental gymnastics I can't quite comprehend.

It's been stated elsewhere that the cat is provided with meat and does not eat it. The difference between that and making the cat eat it is quite reasonably described as "forced". That said, it seems to be noted elsewhere the cat eats presumably-non-vegetarian kibble.

Agreed. That's what is keeping it alive most likely. Those who are unfamiliar with obligate carnivore status of cats should do a search for "feline hepatic lipidosis" which is a horror story. Also search for lists of plants that are fatal to cats.