101–110 of 118 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you read comments you'll notice the cat is one of a group of non vegetarians, and is offered alternatives which it refused. On top of that the cat might also catch mice, lizards or birds while the owner is away.
Still animal abuse to deliberately malnurish your pets. Don't excuse abuse for ego reasons.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have a link to a study that supports your assertion? I find it difficult to believe that plant foods are universally toxic to cats. In fact that sounds like it can't possibly be true or scientifically verified.
Seriously too lazy to wikipedia 'cat' and depend on your biases?
The assertion is that a cat which chooses vegetarian cat food is probably fine because it's getting the necessary nutrients from hunting while the caretaker isn't watching. Could you quote anything from the Wikipedia page which refutes this assertion?
Linked for your convenience: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#Nutrition
I'm guessing you don't actually intend to propose force-feeding meat to a cat that doesn't want it, but in context that's what you're arguing for.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, we're descriptivists in this thread and plenty of people that are vegetarians eat fish and eggs.
I think everyone is in agreement about what "vegetarian" means apart from you. Vegetarians don't eat the flesh of animals, and it's always been like that. Eggs and milk are animal products, not the flesh of animals - so vegetarians can still eat them. Vegans don't eat animal products at all, which rules out eggs and milk. Pescatarians eat fish, but they aren't vegetarians. So if N is the number of distinct foods you…
It's not so simple.
"60% Of Vegans Would Try Lab-Grown Meat, Says Survey"
https://www.plantbasednews.org/post/survey-says-over-half-of...
It seems that vegetarians (or even vegans) object to the way meat is produced. Not to the idea of eating flesh as such.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a natural b12 deficiency and can’t eat a vegetarian diet right now because of it. At the same time lactose intolerance runs in the family (though I don’t have much of a problem wth it). My doctor ordered me to eat more red meat. The difference in my overall well-being has been exponential over the past two years because of it.
Not questioning this, but curious if you can explain more. Why can't you just do one or many of: Taking a B12 supplement, eating fortified food (american breakfast cereals often have B12, especially the "healthier" options (plain cheerios, corn flakes, nut grapes, ...), nutritional yeast, ....), eating eggs? You mentioned lactose intolerance, but since you aren't really bothered by it, I assume cheese and possibly yo…
I'm certainly not saying there are no routes to surviving well as a vegetarian maintaining some form of anemia or other B12/Iron deficiency, but I'm assuming his direction was that due to its proven concentration.
I actually increased my diet of eggs, spinach, I'd long taken a cyanocobalamin orally daily before switching to a higher dose of methylcobalamin sublingual dose, and started eating yogurt.
I try and avoid an excess of cheese and grains because I simply don't need that much in the way of fats and carbohydrates in my current regimen.
Nutrition is complex, and I think it's generally accepted that acquiring nutrients through digestion is more reliable than supplementation. (so that I'm not saying this completely out of my ass, [0] [1])
[0] https://www.nature.com/news/nutrition-vitamins-on-trial-1.15...
[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-v...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a natural b12 deficiency and can’t eat a vegetarian diet right now because of it. At the same time lactose intolerance runs in the family (though I don’t have much of a problem wth it). My doctor ordered me to eat more red meat. The difference in my overall well-being has been exponential over the past two years because of it.
I'm in the same boat, I resolved it with Nutritional Yeast.
But I actually had to look up nutritional yeast as I hadn't heard of it here (Canada). It actually sounds like a promising supplement to my own diet. It seems like the only catch is that it doesn't produce B12 naturally, and I'll have to be sure to pick up the fortified version (unless they all are?)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have a link to a study that supports your assertion? I find it difficult to believe that plant foods are universally toxic to cats. In fact that sounds like it can't possibly be true or scientifically verified.
Seriously too lazy to wikipedia 'cat' and depend on your biases?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes I read that above. Cats require a diet consisting almost entirely of animal protein and their livers cannot process the toxins in plant foods. This is still abusive behavior. Sorry if it feels bad to realize you have supported this, but you should stop... the science is clear.
Do you have a link to a study that supports your assertion? I find it difficult to believe that plant foods are universally toxic to cats. In fact that sounds like it can't possibly be true or scientifically verified.
While I don't mean to imply that all plants are going to be like poisons to cats at any dose, almost all plants do contain antinutrients, which can be potentially toxic at some dose to an obligate carnivore.
Most of the toxin load in omnivorous diets, including the typical human diet, comes from stuff plants produce naturally. This makes a lot of evolutionary sense; chemical defenses are the only ones plants have and there is usually a subtle mix of nutrients and antinutrients even in popular domesticated foods. Apple seeds contains cyanide. Wheat contains lectins and phytates that block mineral absorption. In India's largest chickpea producing region they have to put a price floor on chickpeas, otherwise poor people will eat enough of them to die. I am not exaggerating when I say that basically all plant foods contain antinutrients, and like anything it's the doses that makes the poison.
(Another subtlety is there are few pure antinutrients. I mentioned phytates, which can cause mineral deficiencies in humans at high enough doses. But phytates may also be protective against cancer. This doesn't change the basic argument I'm making about whether cats are designed to filter out all the chemical warfare that plants unleash, in significant doses.)
This is basic stuff, although contrary to many people's uninformed opinion. Feeding a bunch of plants to a predator is dangerous in the short term and abusive over the long term. I'm sorry I don't have any specific links for cats and liver toxicity specifically, but in general you can look to "The Killer Salad", which is a chapter in one of Michael Pollan's books, or to the writings of Paul Jaminet if you want to verify what I am saying bout the majority of toxins in mixed diets coming from plant foods.
Here are a couple of cat specific links that only mention the liver/toxin issue in passing, they look at the issue more broadly: https://animalwellnessmagazine.com/cats-cant-vegetarian/ http://messybeast.com/veggiecat.htm
If you google for example foods and plants that are considered safe for dogs to eat -- and then compare to cats -- you'll find the list of stuff that's safe for dogs is dramatically longer. Same thing for essential oils, many of them can be very damaging to cats in small doses. It's because of what I have explained above.. predator animals are not evolved to filter out stuff the way others are... they are designed to eat animals who have livers evolved to do the filtering for them. There are plants described as "safe" for cats to eat and you will occasionally see a cat eat small doses of random plants. They are talking about occasional consumption. But making any plant the staple of a cat's diet is cruel. Imposing ideology onto nature requires ignoring a lot of evidence.
The burden of proof should be on those who advocate feeding an animal something far different to its evolved diet. Still, there is lots of evidence that cats do poorly the more their diet gets away from not just animal foods but raw animal foods... I cited a well known study that's quite old above, but I'm absolutely sure you can find more evidence on this, if you care to.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A vegetarian diet has never included fish. You’re thinking of pescatarianism.
No, we're descriptivists in this thread and plenty of people that are vegetarians eat fish and eggs.
It's just way easier for me to say I'm vegetarian "but I eat fish sometimes". People get that.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes I read that above. Cats require a diet consisting almost entirely of animal protein and their livers cannot process the toxins in plant foods. This is still abusive behavior. Sorry if it feels bad to realize you have supported this, but you should stop... the science is clear.
Thanks for your concern, but I feel quite okay with everything I've said on this topic. If you think force-feeding meat to an animal that doesn't want it is less abusive than letting them get meat by hunting if they want to, you're welcome to that very strange opinion.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm in the same boat, I resolved it with Nutritional Yeast.
I prefer Brewer's Yeast in a particular liquid form ;) But I actually had to look up nutritional yeast as I hadn't heard of it here (Canada). It actually sounds like a promising supplement to my own diet. It seems like the only catch is that it doesn't produce B12 naturally, and I'll have to be sure to pick up the fortified version (unless they all are?)