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Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#61

Post by chrisvalleybay »

amelius wrote: post #55
52-6F-62 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a natural b12 deficiency and can’t eat a vegetarian diet right now because of it. At the same time lactose intolerance runs in the family (though I don’t have much of a problem wth it). My doctor ordered me to eat more red meat. The difference in my overall well-being has been exponential over the past two years because of it.

How did you discover you had a deficiency?

Do a blood test. All vegetarians should do blood tests every now and then.

As an aside; I ate a vegan diet for 2-3 years and my B12 was fine. That’s not to say it would’ve been fine 2-3 years later, though.

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#62

Post by pc86 »

nasredin wrote: post #34
lovelearning wrote: post #22

I don't see much value in trying to use logical speculation to generalize such behaviors to an entire species. Anybody who has observed animals and pets will have noticed how each and every animal has its own personality, likes, dislikes and peculiarities. Just like people, who, despite our airs, are just another species. Some of my pets eat people food which my other pets don't even look at. Some of them play with b…

"pet cat" And the other type being a stray cat? Confused about the term. Not a cat person myself.

What exactly is confusing about the term "pet cat?" It's a cat. It's the man's pet.

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#63

Post by latch »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #54
latch wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a vegan get B12? Synthesis. Synthesized taurine is already added to some pet food. A cursory search shows that small levels of taurine is available from vegan sources. Goat and buffalo milk appear to be the best vegetarian source, but, if ~75mg/day for a cat is correct, neither seem close to significant enough.

I have a natural b12 deficiency and can’t eat a vegetarian diet right now because of it. At the same time lactose intolerance runs in the family (though I don’t have much of a problem wth it). My doctor ordered me to eat more red meat. The difference in my overall well-being has been exponential over the past two years because of it.

Not questioning this, but curious if you can explain more. Why can't you just do one or many of:

Taking a B12 supplement, eating fortified food (american breakfast cereals often have B12, especially the "healthier" options (plain cheerios, corn flakes, nut grapes, ...), nutritional yeast, ....), eating eggs?

You mentioned lactose intolerance, but since you aren't really bothered by it, I assume cheese and possibly yogurt are absolutely no problem.

I guess my question is why can't you. What is it about a natural b12 deficiency that makes it so the normal vegan or vegetarian options aren't sufficient?

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#64

Post by xg15 »

lovelearning wrote: post #22

I don't see much value in trying to use logical speculation to generalize such behaviors to an entire species. Anybody who has observed animals and pets will have noticed how each and every animal has its own personality, likes, dislikes and peculiarities. Just like people, who, despite our airs, are just another species. Some of my pets eat people food which my other pets don't even look at. Some of them play with b…

I think you can "generalize" in the way that members of the species are in principle capable of such things, not that they'll necessarily do it.

Also I think the idea of animals having "personalities" is itself still contested, so additional observations that support it may help.

I think it's like the incident with the crow Betty. It didn't show that all new-caledonian crows were super smart, but it showed that they are in principle capable of deliberate, creative problem-solving and are able to employ it if circumstances align just right.

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#65

Post by paulie_a »

lovelearning wrote: post #22

I don't see much value in trying to use logical speculation to generalize such behaviors to an entire species. Anybody who has observed animals and pets will have noticed how each and every animal has its own personality, likes, dislikes and peculiarities. Just like people, who, despite our airs, are just another species. Some of my pets eat people food which my other pets don't even look at. Some of them play with b…

> vegetarian cat

Aka animal abuse

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#66

Post by threepipeproblm »

lovelearning wrote: post #22

I don't see much value in trying to use logical speculation to generalize such behaviors to an entire species. Anybody who has observed animals and pets will have noticed how each and every animal has its own personality, likes, dislikes and peculiarities. Just like people, who, despite our airs, are just another species. Some of my pets eat people food which my other pets don't even look at. Some of them play with b…

"Having a vegetarian cat," also known as animal abuse.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/nutrition-greats/...

Re: Elephant 'smoking' footage baffles experts

#68

Post by Ensorceled »

nitrogen wrote: post #24
lovelearning wrote: post #22

I don't see much value in trying to use logical speculation to generalize such behaviors to an entire species. Anybody who has observed animals and pets will have noticed how each and every animal has its own personality, likes, dislikes and peculiarities. Just like people, who, despite our airs, are just another species. Some of my pets eat people food which my other pets don't even look at. Some of them play with b…

...a pure vegetarian pet cat... How does the cat obtain whatever missing nutrients cause most cats to be obligate carnivores?

If it goes outside at all ... it doesn't.

We had a cat that didn't eat cat food from May until October, we didn't assume it was a breatharian during that time.

When our cat disappeared (we assume a fox or wolf got her) after almost a decade of this, the farmers to either side of us started having mice and rat problems again :-)

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