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Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

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Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#51

Post by rusk »

wilsonnb wrote: post #46

I've listened to a few of his lectures and read a few articles about him and I don't see a difference between what he says and what every other self-help author who wants to sell millions of books is saying. It's mostly vague hand-wavy kind of stuff that sounds profound in the moment but later realize it's either blatantly obvious truth dressed up in fancy words or it's nonsense wearing the same clothes. Had he not g…

I think perhaps check out the Russel Brand "Under the skin" interview - I think that's the closest I've seen to Peterson getting a good stiff interview. You probably know Russell Brand as that guy that was married to Katy Perry but trust me, once you get past his whimsy he's got a razor sharp intellect. On the face of it he embodies much of what Peterson speaks out about, and you'd think they'd be at loggerheads but it was a remarkably enlightening interview.

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#52

Post by tryitnow »

danielvaughn wrote: post #9

I'll try to explain why I'm enamored with the guy, though I do try and resist it. I've fallen victim to a few cult followings in my past - Ayn Rand in my teens and then Noam Chomsky in my early twenties. So I know the danger signs of falling into an ideological trapping, and I do see that happening with some of Peterson's fans. But I don't care about the fight against "Postmodern Neo-Marxism" or any of his discussion…

Thank you for posting this honest revelation. I sympathize as I also had similar infatuations with Rand in my teens and Chomsky in my twenties.

However, let me also warn you that this path of becoming infatuated with "thinkers" like Peterson is a dead end.

People like Rand, Chomsky and Peterson look heroic merely because they are willing to shout the loudest and attract the spotlight.

If you are really searching for authentic meaning, you're probably not going to find it among those in in the spotlight.

Instead of Rand, seek out Robert Nozick. Instead of Chomsky, seek out Murray Bookchin. Instead of Peterson, seek out Alasdair MacIntyre.

There are smart, brilliant thinkers of every ideological stripe. However, the best and brightest rarely make the NYT bestseller list. Continuing to be attracted to "thinkers" like Peterson will only lead to disappointment. Almost everything he is saying has been said before by someone who was smarter and a better writer, and most importantly kinder, than Peterson.

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#53

Post by thinkingemote »

rusk wrote: post #16
psyc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having watched a lot of Peterson's lectures, there's a fact about him which I think might lead a lot of critics to say false things about his level of confidence or arrogance. He speaks in a very confident, impassioned tone , but his actual words are permeated by deep humility.

Yes, there is a dissonance there that led me to be suspicious at first. It's probably just that he's an introvert who learned "how to speak confidently" from a book or a course or something. That said, I don't think he comes across as completely intellectually honest in a lot of his interviews. I think that this might be more a product of a lot of the bad faith he's been subjected to than anything intrinsic to his id…

I think he learnt how to speak from a few decades of teaching, and in his teaching technique (as opposed to speech giving, debating). I've noticed most teachers and lecturers I've met as being good confident speakers. Not all academics, but the proper educators, almost all yes.

I've noticed that he does fall into set patterns of anecdote and stories in interviews, like he will reply to a question and then pause for a little bit and then reply with something almost pre-scripted, a previous thought but slightly changed.

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#54

Post by wilsonnb »

rusk wrote: post #51
wilsonnb wrote: post #46

I've listened to a few of his lectures and read a few articles about him and I don't see a difference between what he says and what every other self-help author who wants to sell millions of books is saying. It's mostly vague hand-wavy kind of stuff that sounds profound in the moment but later realize it's either blatantly obvious truth dressed up in fancy words or it's nonsense wearing the same clothes. Had he not g…

I think perhaps check out the Russel Brand "Under the skin" interview - I think that's the closest I've seen to Peterson getting a good stiff interview. You probably know Russell Brand as that guy that was married to Katy Perry but trust me, once you get past his whimsy he's got a razor sharp intellect. On the face of it he embodies much of what Peterson speaks out about, and you'd think they'd be at loggerheads but…

I'm giving it a listen now.

I'm only 10 minutes or so into it, but this is a quote (not exact, but close enough) from Jordan Peterson:

"(music and cathedrals) are ways of trying to symbolically represent how things could be if they were put in the proper state of balance or harmony"

What does that even mean? The only concrete nugget of knowledge I can get from that is that cathedrals are designed in a relatively balanced manner. Symmetrical, I guess.

I plan to listen to the rest of this interview but that statement was a particularly good example of the hand-waavy nonsense that I was talking about so I decided to record it here so I didn't forget.

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#55

Post by [deleted] »

rusk wrote: post #2

This is a nice even-handed review. It has been hard to get a clear picture of what Peterson is about and I've had to sift through an awful lot of partisan spite-pieces on both sides to try to get to the bottom of what's going on with him. The following paragraph jumped out at me here: "The politics in this book lean a bit right, but if you think of Peterson as a political commentator you’re missing the point. The sci…

[deleted]

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#56

Post by scrumper »

mercurysmessage wrote: post #49
danielvaughn wrote: post #9

I'll try to explain why I'm enamored with the guy, though I do try and resist it. I've fallen victim to a few cult followings in my past - Ayn Rand in my teens and then Noam Chomsky in my early twenties. So I know the danger signs of falling into an ideological trapping, and I do see that happening with some of Peterson's fans. But I don't care about the fight against "Postmodern Neo-Marxism" or any of his discussion…

I personally don't find what he says worthwhile. It's honestly not worth bothering looking into him, in my mind with all of the terrible things he has said, and believes, he's pseudo scientific, and really doesn't understand much of what he tries to argue as well.

What terrible things?

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#57

Post by personlurking »

timmytwotime wrote: post #50
personlurking wrote: post #27

One thing I fight with, internally, is his idea that if you "clean up your room", so to speak, your life will start to have meaning. Because of him, and due to doing his Self-Authoring program, I followed the steps, took responsibility for my life and changed a lot of things, but the meaning part has yet to hit me. Perhaps it's there, yet buried, I don't know.

"Clean your room" is an internalization: how can you judge or even change the world if your room (your life) is a mess? The point is to fix yourself first, then start taking on the world. And do it all in small steps. > the meaning part has yet to hit me You don't feel any sort of pride after getting yourself in order? Are you sure you have yourself in order?

It's perhaps that the 'getting myself in order' part is still in progress, and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#59

Post by ur_all_autistic »

danielvaughn wrote: post #9

I'll try to explain why I'm enamored with the guy, though I do try and resist it. I've fallen victim to a few cult followings in my past - Ayn Rand in my teens and then Noam Chomsky in my early twenties. So I know the danger signs of falling into an ideological trapping, and I do see that happening with some of Peterson's fans. But I don't care about the fight against "Postmodern Neo-Marxism" or any of his discussion…

Robert Anton Wilson might have accomplished something similar for you, but in a healthier way. His "Prometheus Rising" has helped a lot of people solve the problems you describe, without any Nazi political rhetoric attached.

Re: Book Review: Twelve Rules for Life

#60

Post by pzone »

tryitnow wrote: post #52
danielvaughn wrote: post #9

I'll try to explain why I'm enamored with the guy, though I do try and resist it. I've fallen victim to a few cult followings in my past - Ayn Rand in my teens and then Noam Chomsky in my early twenties. So I know the danger signs of falling into an ideological trapping, and I do see that happening with some of Peterson's fans. But I don't care about the fight against "Postmodern Neo-Marxism" or any of his discussion…

Thank you for posting this honest revelation. I sympathize as I also had similar infatuations with Rand in my teens and Chomsky in my twenties. However, let me also warn you that this path of becoming infatuated with "thinkers" like Peterson is a dead end. People like Rand, Chomsky and Peterson look heroic merely because they are willing to shout the loudest and attract the spotlight. If you are really searching for…

There is one thing about Peterson that makes this interpretation a bit more difficult. For most of his career, the guy was a relatively obscure but respected academic, not making an effort to reach a broader audience with his message except through a well liked course for undergraduates at the University of Toronto. He had strong convictions and a clear message, and there was certainly a current of conservative political belief, but his launch into fame was largely happenstance. He took issue with a new Canadian law that he considers an attack on free speech, and this came at a time when conservative media feels its job is to emblazon this kind of viewpoint.

He has done a good job surfing the wave of fame for sure. In my opinion the core of it is not about fame though, the core is a message he's promoted for decades and that he truly thinks is correct, and helpful to people.

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