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Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

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Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#361

Post by drukenemo »

ng-user wrote: post #316
seba_dos1 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Is it really? That can be just my network, but I've never stumbled upon anyone using WhatsApp here in Poland. I only know this name because I follow tech news. Almost everyone uses Facebook's Messenger, some people use Telegram, sometimes Hangouts, gamers use Discord, techies Signal or Jabber and that's pretty much it.

When I was in the Nederlands last year they actually had public signage advertising a WhatsApp group chat (for emergencies and the like) for the surrounding community. I was surprised by how popular it is.

I'm from Brazil, live in the Netherlands. Whastapp is ubiquitous in both places. Not using it today is akin to not having a mobile phone years ago.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#362

Post by lucb1e »

nasmorn wrote: post #44
deely wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, what happen if some big comp asks you to 'polish' a bit ToS, to make it more 'lawyer style', because otherwise they didn't spent additional $ 10m on you business?

I got this objection once for a mere 100k. The most enterprisey client stalled negotiations for quite some time because we didn’t have long enough TOS. There was no issue with the content just length.

Wtf, this is a thing?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#363

Post by hnarn »

sah2ed wrote: post #347
hnarn wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, do you feel it's irrelevant to mention that it was said in a chat conversation, in 2004 when Zuckerberg was 20 years old? I'm not saying that makes what he said completely fine, but it's not irrelevant for context.

I wasn't the one you originally replied to but it looks like you are shifting the goal posts here. > Maybe I'm the only one on HN that hasn't heard about it, but even so, sources shouldn't be omitted. You asked for sources and I merely provided one such source as "proof" that Zuck actually did use those words in the past.

Sorry, you're right that I mixed you up with whoever posted the original comment. I do think context matters though, of course that makes no sense to say specifically to you.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#364

Post by zodiac »

dredmorbius wrote: post #338
zodiac wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tools which become ubiquitous or prerequisites for other services are not discretionary...As such, its terms and services as those of numerous other services, should be defined in a standard set of obligations, rights, and responsibilities, by law. I see this sentiment in some form a lot. Is there a name for this principle? Where does it come from? I don't in general agree with it - speaking generally, I think enfo…

Government.

I don't understand - would appreciate if you elaborate.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#365

Post by jimmaswell »

vanderZwan wrote: post #360
jimmaswell wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone sells me a car, and I paint it pink, and they're mad after the fact because they hate pink, did I fail to adequately convey the consequences of their agreeing to sell me the car? I don't think so; they agreed to sell me the car and that should be enough.

I fail to see how your analogy maps to the current situation.

Someone sold a car and it was used in an unexpected way. People agreed to give Facebook data and it was used in unexpected ways.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#366

Post by bhtru »

p49k wrote: post #178
krick wrote: post #172

Since here's yet another thread about Facebook, I'll ask somewhat unrelated question I already asked on HN, but never seen an answer: can somebody explain, why the scandal around Cambridge Analyica (and, "suddenly", a bunch of other rumors about FB) escalated just now, even though we knew about FB, Cambridge Analytica & Trump for about a year at least (well — I knew for a year, sure lots of people knew earlier)? I su…

For me, it was because a year ago there was only one source for this info, and it was a somewhat dubious one (Vice). I assumed after the initial report that what CA did was more in line with Obama’s tactics, which were more benign and standard. It’s only recently become totally clear that the worst of the reports were true.

Scout.ai was where it first broke I believe with their “The Rise of the Weaponized AI Propaganda Machine” piece from last Feb.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#367

Post by madez »

nojvek wrote: post #354
Fiahil wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation come in many forms, and I believe the first step will be GDPR.

GDPR is a god send. It would never have come out of the US, the corporate funded politicians would have just ate it alive. But because European politicians have some integrity left and internet is inherently global, most internet companies need to do these for everyone. Yes, it’s not perfect, but a great first step.

The internet is as inherently global as the postal services are. What differentiates it is that it's faster, cheaper, and immaterial. In principle, the legal situation hasn't changed compared to before the internet was a thing. If you just want to do business in one country over the internet, you can do so. What has changed is that a company and a customer can reach each other easily, cheaply and fast aross national borders, using the internet. The drawback to international business is laws, rules and policies compliance.

Having that in mind, the project Gutenberg lawsuit makes sense. Imagine a service that copies a requested book and sends you that copy, all by postal services. If that company shipped into a country where the book in question stills protected by copyright, then it is clear that there will be legal action.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#368

Post by bigiain »

hnarn wrote: post #342
sah2ed wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg

So, do you feel it's irrelevant to mention that it was said in a chat conversation, in 2004 when Zuckerberg was 20 years old? I'm not saying that makes what he said completely fine, but it's not irrelevant for context.

I did say it was "a quip" - and I'm sure quite a few people here understood the context - apologies for those who didn't.

For me, it's kind of a geek culture equivalent of a pop culture reference - not quite as ubiquitously recognised as "Oh my god! They killed Kenny!", but probably (in this audience) as recognisable as 'Quoth the Raven, "Eat my shorts!"'

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#369

Post by anitalewis470 »

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Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#370

Post by dredmorbius »

zodiac wrote: post #364
dredmorbius wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government.

I don't understand - would appreciate if you elaborate.

Pardon the delay, but I've been trying to think of a good brief description. I'm not sure I've got one that's particularly clear.

"Common weal", that is, the common wealth or common good, a/k/a social benefit, is probably the best general description. The notion being that there are positive externalities not addressed by the market (or there are offsetting negative externalities not imposed on the producer).

In either case, a useful functioning requires some entity with the interest, capacity, and power, to act in the public interest. The notion is an old one. It comprises Book V of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations ("The Expenses of the Sovereign"), or in contemporary economics, the area of public sector economics (or welfare economics).

And is the domain of government, as my initial response indicated.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/commonweal

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations/Book_V/...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_economics

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