The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker • Hacker News Board

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#31

Post by heavenlyblue » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:22 PM UTC

INvidiA wrote: post #9

ams6110 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called hate here, when for example a person regards homosexuality as immoral and opposes gay marriage. I've rarely heard anyone publicly claim that such people just have different social standards, or if they do, they are vilified for defending hate. Any time in history when one group has been oppressed by another, it's been considered normal by majority social standards of the time. When those standards change,…

But that's the issue. If someone simply sees homosexuality as a something that isn't "approved by God" or something of that nature, and they in their minds are just going along with God's law, are they really hating something? I've heard many anti-gay marriage people say that they have no problem with gay people but that they just oppose gay marriage. Is that cognitive dissonance? Almost certainly, but is it hate? I…

You had just said it: they oppose the institute of marriage, which is not only a traditional way of announcing the union of two people (let's for a moment accept the fact that maybe marriage is only a Christian creation), but is also a legal way of exposing it.

Now please tell me how opposing the gay marriage is not in any way a sign of hate towards gay people that bars them from certain legal liberties? You could try to sell this point of view as a "kind" point of view, but your conginitively dissonant ignorance still makes you hate people as a result; even if you are not conscious about it.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#32

Post by Lambdanaut » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

voltooid wrote: post #14

INvidiA wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the issue. If someone simply sees homosexuality as a something that isn't "approved by God" or something of that nature, and they in their minds are just going along with God's law, are they really hating something? I've heard many anti-gay marriage people say that they have no problem with gay people but that they just oppose gay marriage. Is that cognitive dissonance? Almost certainly, but is it hate? I…

Engaging in discriminatory, derogatory and demeaning behaviour actively. That comes from hate. The experiences of the person featured in the linked article, that could only come from hate. I think people that oppose gay marriage do so because of hate. But found a neat little loophole out of being called hateful by claiming that they have no problem with gay people. My reasoning is this: taking any kind of stance on a…

As someone raised Southern Baptist but not currently identifying as so, I can attest that when I once peacefully opposed homosexuality, it was 100% out of a trust that God knew what he was doing and that I should trust him, despite my own personal ignorance.

The belief that others can only oppose groups of people out of "hate" stems from a strong lack of empathy and understanding for people on the other side of the issue.

> If you oppose something that does not directly affect you, the reason is most probably hate.

Either that, or you are serving something percieved as greater than yourself.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#33

Post by heavenlyblue » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:27 PM UTC

voltooid wrote: post #14

INvidiA wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the issue. If someone simply sees homosexuality as a something that isn't "approved by God" or something of that nature, and they in their minds are just going along with God's law, are they really hating something? I've heard many anti-gay marriage people say that they have no problem with gay people but that they just oppose gay marriage. Is that cognitive dissonance? Almost certainly, but is it hate? I…

Engaging in discriminatory, derogatory and demeaning behaviour actively. That comes from hate. The experiences of the person featured in the linked article, that could only come from hate. I think people that oppose gay marriage do so because of hate. But found a neat little loophole out of being called hateful by claiming that they have no problem with gay people. My reasoning is this: taking any kind of stance on a…

Lambdanaut, if you followed Hitler and believed that nationalism was for the best and then ended up being responsible for the genocide in the camps - do you go back and tell everyone that the only reason you've been killing jews is because you believed that the German people are _simply_ better since Hitler told you so?

I believe you deserve the full responsibility for your ignorance. Your actions are actions of hate no matter how you justify them.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#34

Post by mcguire » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:33 PM UTC

quantumofmalice wrote: post #25

Unlike most of her lot, her family was "middle class", thanks to the help of Canadian missionaries in her region who aided in education and offered them religion. Her family was thus Christian and benefited with education. Her parents held jobs as college teachers. Gidla says that proselytization didn't help her lot. "Christians, untouchables - it came to the same thing. All Christians in India were untouchable. I kn…

And affirmative action.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#35

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #30

The child of "college teachers" and a former "researcher in applied physics" at IIT is now a train conductor with the New York subway? This is a good thing?

Hm? I don't understand the connection you're drawing to her parentage.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#36

Post by wmil » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:39 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #30

The child of "college teachers" and a former "researcher in applied physics" at IIT is now a train conductor with the New York subway? This is a good thing?

Financially it's smarter than being a post-doc or untenured lecturer.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#37

Post by TheCoelacanth » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:39 PM UTC

retSava wrote: post #27

INvidiA wrote: post #5

These sort of class distinctions are much less pronounced in America, which is why so many oppressed or impoverished people from elsewhere yearn to travel here and make a new life. It's nice to hear about someone who was able to realize the American Dream and escape the class prejudice of their home country.

That might be the case, but the constant reminder of race is very weird to me. As in, it's very common to denote someone to be "black" or "white" or "hispanic" and so on. I can understand this to some extent when it comes to describing how someone looks (eg police warrant) but in most other contexts... it's just feels very strange with the obsession of what color/origin someone has/is.

Funny how centuries of race based slavery and discrimination will do that.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#38

Post by mcguire » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

Lambdanaut wrote: post #32

voltooid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engaging in discriminatory, derogatory and demeaning behaviour actively. That comes from hate. The experiences of the person featured in the linked article, that could only come from hate. I think people that oppose gay marriage do so because of hate. But found a neat little loophole out of being called hateful by claiming that they have no problem with gay people. My reasoning is this: taking any kind of stance on a…

As someone raised Southern Baptist but not currently identifying as so, I can attest that when I once peacefully opposed homosexuality, it was 100% out of a trust that God knew what he was doing and that I should trust him, despite my own personal ignorance. The belief that others can only oppose groups of people out of "hate" stems from a strong lack of empathy and understanding for people on the other side of the i…

Yes and no. Sure, 'hate' is probably the wrong word, and may be counter productive in many cases. And you're right about the empathy; everyone likes to apply labels that mean they don't have to feel.

On the other hand, accusing the people you oppose of being demonic Satan-spawn looking to corrupt our youth and destroy our lives and country, of being the baby-molesting other that causes nightmares, well, that probably isn't caused by an excess of good feeling.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#39

Post by sevensor » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:43 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #30

The child of "college teachers" and a former "researcher in applied physics" at IIT is now a train conductor with the New York subway? This is a good thing?

She was laid off from a job at a bank, per the article.

Re: The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker

#40

Post by RobertRoberts » Mon, Mar 26, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #35

mcguire wrote: post #30

The child of "college teachers" and a former "researcher in applied physics" at IIT is now a train conductor with the New York subway? This is a good thing?

Hm? I don't understand the connection you're drawing to her parentage.

I do believe the reference is to her capacity for intellectual work (teaching vs driving a train) based on the environment her parents would have raised her in. Not genetics.