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Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

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Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#261

Post by manjushri »

krick wrote: post #172

Since here's yet another thread about Facebook, I'll ask somewhat unrelated question I already asked on HN, but never seen an answer: can somebody explain, why the scandal around Cambridge Analyica (and, "suddenly", a bunch of other rumors about FB) escalated just now, even though we knew about FB, Cambridge Analytica & Trump for about a year at least (well — I knew for a year, sure lots of people knew earlier)? I su…

I was not aware of CA before recently. Wasn't the undercover videos of the executives admitting illegal doings only just recently released?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#262

Post by kolbe »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #254
gm-conspiracy wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies do care about being associated with negative PR, though. Plus, how effective is the advertising in motivating purchase versus sowing seeds of discontent? It has utility, yes, but what the majority seem to consider, "not good".

Pure Capitalists, whose values most of the larger companies are run under, care only about the profit. Sometimes negative PR brings additional profit, there is no remorse in such cases. Facebook's controlling minds don't care about you, they care about if there's reduction in profit [or profit generating ability].

You don't have to abstract this too much. Facebook's "controlling minds" are just one mind: Mark's. Facebook does what Zuckerberg wants it to do. And if he doesn't want to maximize profit, he doesn't have to.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#263

Post by pbhjpbhj »

sametmax wrote: post #95
ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

The problem is not that they took it. There are always bad actors. The problem is that very few people cared. So even if people start leaving facebook in mass, it will just start all over again with another bad actor.

It was probably autocorrect, but just FYI: en masse - it's from French, meaning something like, "in a large group".

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/en_masse

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#264

Post by kolbe »

dm319 wrote: post #154
ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

I think the business sector needs to have a look at the way consent is done in the medical field, where huge terms and conditions with nasty stuff hidden away isn't ok. The concept in medicine is that consent for treatment is done in a simple way that encompasses things that are commonly an issue (but often a minor inconvenience), things that are rarely an issue but are disastrous, and things that might specifically…

Every single contract should be this way. What's the point of a contract if it's clear that one of the parties cannot (or will not) understand it?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#265

Post by lotsofpulp »

amatera wrote: post #259
lotsofpulp wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have international family/friends, WhatsApp is the most ubiquitous and easy to use option I’ve come across.

And why alternatives like Telegramm are not an easy to use option?

That might be an option, but not as ubiquitous and easy to use. We’re dealing with people who barely read and speak a single language, much less English.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#266

Post by TheCoelacanth »

stefanmm wrote: post #76
jonathankoren wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not "better than nothing," it is the minimum that is technically and legally required. The UI is intentionally deceptive. The text is deceptive. The big text says "Text anyone in your phone," which sounds great, but doesn't actually say anything about data sharing. The small low contrast text, describes what they're doing. They know that by putting it small and grey, most people wont read it. The buttons are de…

it appears to be a result of extensive A/B/C ... XY testing. In a way, the users themselves have chosen it.

In the same way that people chose to be robbed at gunpoint when muggers A/B tested mugging people while armed versus mugging people while unarmed.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#267

Post by pbhjpbhj »

freehunter wrote: post #200
austincheney wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to suggest dark UX patterns were at play here. People simply gave Facebook access to everything because it was fashionable and convenient. People simply do not care about their privacy if its in conflict with convenience. It has been common knowledge for years that Facebook will directly use that data against you and still people, completely aware of this, didn't care. The only thing that made people…

When you install malware on your computer, it asks for permission too. People don't understand why their USB drive suddenly needs their account password, but they need to get the files that are stored on there so they type it in. That UAC popup may as well be triggered at random based on how often it shows up, and it never explains why. Is that consent? Do you have a hard time finding the words to blame the malware c…

I mainly use Kubuntu, but on MS Windows IIRC UAC popups day "ABC.exe needs permission to modify your computer" (or similar), that's some explanation at least. If you've no idea what that program is or why it suddenly needs permission then you can refuse (or seek help).

It's not great, but it's a little better than you suggest.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#268

Post by moistoreos »

The issues surrounding Facebook are systemic to our corporate environment and culture. So, really it's a multifaceted problem that the media has disguised as Facebook's sole problem.

They're an American company so profit is of course precedent over everything else. If users are naive enough to think everything they ever did on Facebook could be private, then they just cease to use it for private communications.

Culturally, there's a giant lack of people wanting to actually pay for most things digital. I don't see why it's ok to pay $5 for a mobile game on your phone but people aren't willing to fork over $10/yr for a modicum of privacy.

Should take a poll on this....

Thoughts?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#269

Post by jerrre »

vincnetas wrote: post #186
Joeri wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the users of facebook do get the facebook service in exchange for the data they provide. TANSTAAFL. If you don’t pay with money, you’re paying with something else. Facebook is not a charity. The question is not whether they’re allowed to obtain (non-monetary) payment for using their service, it’s whether it was (and is) clear what the price is. What irks me is why non of these services allow monetary payment. W…

FB income : 15,920,000,000$ [1] FB users : 2,129,000,000 [2] $7.47/year This is quite affordable. Curious how would marketing companies react to such idea. [1] https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/fb/financials?query=income-sta... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/264810/number-of-monthly...

I keep hearing the argument that the people most likely to pay for not looking at ads, are the most interesting to advertisers.....

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#270

Post by sametmax »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #263
sametmax wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that they took it. There are always bad actors. The problem is that very few people cared. So even if people start leaving facebook in mass, it will just start all over again with another bad actor.

It was probably autocorrect, but just FYI: en masse - it's from French, meaning something like, "in a large group". https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/en_masse

The irony is, I'm french, and I tried to "englishify" "en masse", thinking it made sense.
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