Live data from Hacker News

IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

irs.gov

241–250 of 278 posts

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work as a tax auditor and this is completely false. Taxpayers only need to pay the MINIMUM amount of tax required by law, not the maximum. If you are audited then we will tell you why you owe additional tax. No, you will not go to jail for paying less tax but upon audit you will be required to pay the deficiency or provide additional explanations/documents etc. Then you can introduce any counter arguments like you…

I have two questions: 1) If one had used bitcoin as a currency (bought pizza, bubblegum, etc.), are these new "treatments" of cryptocurrency implying one has to report each of these purchases and the tax implication there in? 2) Lets say you are a miner and mine a bitcoin a month (I know not realistic but helps simplify question). Now, lets say you buy pizza with bitcoins from your wallet every month. What is the cos…

Not an accountant and not your accountant but as someone who ran a small business:

If you run a small business which grosses $X,000 per month, you will a) find that that is not that rare and b) benefit from keeping appropriate records of your expenses, including electricity and depreciation of expensive equipment, such that you can claim them on the tax return for your business each year.

You might choose to swap assets of the business directly for pizza but this is, in general, not a good decision relative to swapping them for money and money for pizza.

Your cost basis in intellectual property is typically the marginal cost to produce it. You can run the question of how exactly to bookkeep it past your accountant, but the profit of a mining businesses with $8k gross revenue and $2k of expenses per month should be $6k.

If you believe your mining business to have insurmountable challenges in bookkeeping at the scale you’re operating it at then maaaaaybe you should hire professional help or exit the business.

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind: - Trading cryptocurrencies produces capital gains or losses, with the latter being able to offset gains and reduce tax. - Exchanging one token for another — for example, using Ethereum to purchase an altcoin — creates a taxable event. The token is treated as being sold, thus generating capital gains or losses. - Receiving payments in crypto in exchange for products or services or as salary is treated as…

> Exchanging one token for another — for example, using Ethereum to purchase an altcoin — creates a taxable event. The token is treated as being sold, thus generating capital gains or losses. Which is absurdly difficult for the average person to account for. If I buy 60000 XRP for 4 BTC, what is my cost basis? Do I have to keep track of how much those bitcoins were worth on a different exchange with Fiat pairings at…

What kind of crappy trading are you doing if you aren’t constantly aware of the fiat value of your holdings? Who are these people doing non usd trades who don’t know the fiat value of the trade?

Can’t be a very good trader, that is for true...

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#243
post #130

If you are walking down the beach and find a $20 bill on the ground, you are required to report it as income. The only way that I know of that you can legally enrich yourself without paying taxes is via a direct gift and that’s because the giver pays tax instead of you.

There is a 0% capital gains tax bracket, for example. Additionally, below a certain (low) level of wage income deductions and credits can negate nominal income tax owed, for an effective zero or even negative (with credits) tax rate.

Yes, but there are still reporting requirements, and you have to report and pay what may be owed.

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#244

If you are walking down the beach and find a $20 bill on the ground, you are required to report it as income. The only way that I know of that you can legally enrich yourself without paying taxes is via a direct gift and that’s because the giver pays tax instead of you.

Isn't it likely the person who lost the $20 bill already paid tax on it?

There's no rule that says only one person pays income tax. For example:

1) You make $20 from employment, and pay $5 income tax. 2) I sell you a sandwich for $15.

I still owe income tax for the money I made selling you a sandwich, even though you already paid tax.

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRS doesn't treat chips as stock-like things, they are treated as cash. Can you imagine if crypto currencies were treated like foreign currency instead? You wouldn't be complaining about bookkeeping at least...

At a casino your "bets in flight" could be considered securities... If the roulette wheel spins for a year while your bets are down, maybe you could claim long term capital gains on your winnings because you held the position long enough...

To claim the "bets in flight" are securities, someone would have to argue that you are making money from the efforts of others (see Howey Test[1]), rather than chance...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_v._W._J._Howey_Co.

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two questions: 1) If one had used bitcoin as a currency (bought pizza, bubblegum, etc.), are these new "treatments" of cryptocurrency implying one has to report each of these purchases and the tax implication there in? 2) Lets say you are a miner and mine a bitcoin a month (I know not realistic but helps simplify question). Now, lets say you buy pizza with bitcoins from your wallet every month. What is the cos…

Of course you need to report them. If you used AMZN stock to buy bubble gum or shoes, you'd have to report it too. Just because it is named crypto "currency" doesn't actually make it a currency...

You can’t possibly buy bubblegum using stock. Having the properties of a currency makes them currencies!

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still find it weird that he has to pay taxes in dollars on something that he doesn't know the value of in dollars since he hasn't converted his cryptocurrency assets to fiat yet.

He exhanged a storage of value from one party to another on a set date. There was an agreed upon value at the time (bitcoin to USD and then USD to altcoin). You can’t convert your real estate into stock without paying taxes anymore than you can one crypto coin to another.

Most people expect cryptocurrencies to behave like, well, currency. Isn’t it the case that with Forex trading you simply pay tax on total gains & losses, not every trade you made?

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exchanging one token for another — for example, using Ethereum to purchase an altcoin — creates a taxable event. The token is treated as being sold, thus generating capital gains or losses. Which is absurdly difficult for the average person to account for. If I buy 60000 XRP for 4 BTC, what is my cost basis? Do I have to keep track of how much those bitcoins were worth on a different exchange with Fiat pairings at…

What kind of crappy trading are you doing if you aren’t constantly aware of the fiat value of your holdings? Who are these people doing non usd trades who don’t know the fiat value of the trade? Can’t be a very good trader, that is for true...

If you trade XRP/BTC pair the USD value is largely irrelevant

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#249

I thought you didn't need to unless you sold. If you simply buy or receive, that also needs to be reported? I have some of those stellar/lumens from when they awarded them for free for signing up back in 2016, but have never sold or transferred them.

Keep in mind: - Trading cryptocurrencies produces capital gains or losses, with the latter being able to offset gains and reduce tax. - Exchanging one token for another — for example, using Ethereum to purchase an altcoin — creates a taxable event. The token is treated as being sold, thus generating capital gains or losses. - Receiving payments in crypto in exchange for products or services or as salary is treated as…

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is how to treat cryptocurrency gained via a fork. Any idea?

Re: IRS reminds taxpayers to report virtual currency transactions

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not merely questioning phrasing. It's saying that use of a certain set of words, including "pernicious" and "female", is an indicator of holding beliefs that are so wrong that the comment warrants total dismissal. >>You're just pissed that anyone is calling attention to your rhetorical tactics, But using a word like "female" is not a rhetorical tactic.. You're imparting motives without any evidence beyond broad…

Considering that your comment at issue didn't actually contain a gratuitous use of "female", you perhaps shouldn't focus too much of your argument on that bit and instead defend yourself only in regards to what you're actually being accused of. You've repeatedly used the term "natural right" without defining what you mean by that, and without explaining why income taxes are a particularly egregious infringement on th…

>>You've repeatedly used the term "natural right" without defining what you mean by that, and without explaining why income taxes are a particularly egregious infringement on those rights.

I would be happy to debate my use of the term natural rights, but you're moving the goalposts.

Let's reach a resolution on the previously discussed point before moving to another.

The previous point was that dismissing a person, and their argument, merely for their comment containing one of a set of blacklisted words, like "pernicious" or "female", is absurd.

It's obviously anti-intellectual and trying to defend this kind of conduct shows bad faith.

>>This is not to say that you cannot use the word "pernicious", but your use of it is remarkable.

Again, moving the goalposts. Your argument is not the same thing as the one you defended earlier.

Post reply on HN