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Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

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51–60 of 76 posts

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#51
Do they read HN? Is there an office of four people (A programmer, a CFO, a COO and a CEO) all looking at each other thinking - is this us?

If I was anyone but the programmer I'd probably be crapping myself. Which tells you something about the position you are in. (i.e. one of power)

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#53

Why does a company with only one programmer have a CFO and a COO? Also, why wouldn't you be the CTO and have a share if they are all about titles... I'd say it seems like maybe you are being taken advantage of and it might be time to jump ship. Good luck!

That was my first thought as well. 3 chiefs and one indian? That's an obvious problem.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#54
You are the hired help.

You came in looking for a job.

You will go out looking for one.

The legal fees for selling you stock in an S-corp are negligible, buy-sell agreements and employment contracts should already be in place...or there are none. In which case you don't want equity anyway.

There is nothing in your description which speaks in favor of staying.

The owners are just burning through OPM before they go bankrupt.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#55
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can give notice, but in many positions, you'll be out the door within the hour. Nothin personal, but that's how it is. I've given 2 weeks notice and been escorted out the door within 30 minutes, and I've given 2 weeks noticed and asked to stay longer. Whatever you give, be prepared that that's your last day, and plan accordingly. They may see it as an act of betrayal or a loyalty issue, and will have you leave th…

I find that "out the door within the hour" extraordinarily unprofessional. I wouldn't want to work in a situation where people think throwing someone out on their ass without collecting documentation, checking up on projects, and generally tying up loose ends is a good strategy. It just sounds like an extraordinarily petty and ineffective way to deal with losing a team member.

It's only happened to me once, but it did happen, and the person who did it was regarded by others as petty and power-hungry. FWIW, I was brought back to do a bit of work later, and the number 3 guy in the place heard my story and was basically shocked that HR had handled things this way.

How this happened was I'd handed in my notice already - 2 weeks. But... I wanted to know if I was going to get my remaining vacation time as pay or not. I'd started before there was an 'hr handbook', but there was one in place. I wrote to HR and asked, and was told "it's in the handbook". I wrote back and asked what page it was on, because I couldn't see it in mine.

I got an email back saying something to the effect of "here's your vacation that's owed you..." and that was it. 10 minutes later the guy in the same cube as me said email to me bounced. I watched him send and it bounced back saying 'mailbox invalid'. An HR rep from our building came to my desk another 10 minutes later with a box saying "I have to escort you out of the building now". She was nice about it, and didn't seem to want to do it, but did it. So... the project I was working on was left in a broken state, client emails to me bounced, and they had no clue what was going on. I left, set up my own shop, and what do you know - that client decided to jump ship and stay with me instead of being charged twice the hourly rate for the kind of service they were getting. Basically, they considered their business too important to be cut off by phone and email from the people doing the work solely on the whim of one HR person.

Yeah, that was my rant. Again, only happened to me once, but it happened, and I've seen it happen to others.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#58

Do they read HN? Is there an office of four people (A programmer, a CFO, a COO and a CEO) all looking at each other thinking - is this us? If I was anyone but the programmer I'd probably be crapping myself. Which tells you something about the position you are in. (i.e. one of power)

That's not necessarily true. I've run into this sort of situation in the past (never worked for them, just seen it), and the attitudes of the non-technical people towards the technical ones tends to be one of "they're just programmers: they're taking my brilliant vision and merely transcribing it onto the computer, like a typist!".

These kinds of people, who believe that building a successful software company is 99% inspiration and 1% perspiration tend to be egotistical and clueless. I bet they've never heard of HN, and even if they read this thread would be convinced they could find yet another poor 21/22 year old sucker to employ for under market rates. The unfortunate thing is that they're probably right about the latter.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#59
post #17

Let's get real about something: they're business guys, and you're the technical muscle, right? You seem young, and you're probably as good at sizing them up (note your "great people" comment) as the average MBA is at writing code; by this, I mean, not at all. Don't even try. Make your decisions based on hard facts, such as how much equity you have already and when you will start collecting a salary, and not based on…

Agreed. Smiles, promises, and handshakes from the vast majority of MBAs mean nothing. If it ain't in writing it don't exist, and to proceed otherwise is great risk.

Re: Ask HN: When are you allowed to quit a startup?

#60
There's a lot of sound advice in the thread (TL;DR: many red flags, get out now!)

I'd like to add my experience of having stayed at such a company, and getting the short end of the stick.

If you end up making the wrong choice -- yes -- you'll lose money, bills will be scary, etc etc. I hate to sound cliché, but you sound like a bright individual, and that stuff will eventually recede in your rearview mirror. If you stay and get screwed, you will still eventually leave, and then you will think about two things:

a) How stupid you feel for letting a company walk all over you. Like, "Aren't I smart enough to avoid those traps?" (Answer: only after you've fallen into them once or twice.)

b) Eventually, you'll appreciate the wisdom earned from failure. I worked for 4.5 years as employee zero, with little in the way of appreciation from my employer (not just material). I saw many things I now recognize as hallmarks of mismanagement. As much as I felt like a heel for not having the gumption to quit, I earned a great deal of experience that I rely on daily.

So -- if you end up staying, and you end up like me -- it's not all roses, but it's not all thorns either. Knowing what you don't want in an employer is often as valuable as knowing what you do want.

A final aside: there was no malice at my old company. They were decent people, but something else was always higher priority, and the results spoke for themselves.

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