Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

nautil.us

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 360 posts

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#251

Post by gerash »

jonathanyc wrote: post #157
gerash wrote: post #150

I personally prefer Google over FB. I haven't deleted my FB account because that's my contact list of some sort but I am not very active. I guess I prefer the Snapchat model where what you post doesn't stick around forever. I'm not fond of the aggressive, greedy bro attitude of FB in moving fast and breaking things. On the other hand I use Google services all the time. Folks whining about data collection should reali…

> If you're complaining about seeing ads and are not using the paid GSuite version or non google services for email for example, it means you don't care enough and perhaps should stop whining about a free service you've opted to use. This and you characterizing people opposing Facebook and Google as “whining” does not contribute to the discussion. If you think not paying for a service revokes your right to complain a…

I didn't say those who don't pay for a service have no right to complain.

I'm opposing the constant characterization of what Google and Facebook do [successfully and other companies do too but less successfully] which is collecting behavior signals to tailor ads and services is inherently nefarious.

But again, if one opts to receive some service for free, they sure can complain but I don't think they are guaranteed any change to that service based on their complaint.

IMO what matters is that users have alternatives and are not locked in.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#252

Post by hacknat »

Ivoirians wrote: post #70

Disclaimer: I work for Google and these views are only my opinion, etc. From my perspective, Google's goals are aligned with improving the world by offering information services. Search, Gmail, Maps, Translate, basically all of the Other Bets, etc.--it's easy to imagine that the people behind them are more concerned with impact on the world than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power. To me, Facebook ha…

Okay, get off your moral high ground. Google is an advertitizing company. I fail to see how they are any different than a broadcast network or Facebook for that matter. You put out a product and make money off of ads. “Information services to make the world a better place” are you really serious? Does everyone at Google drink the Kool-Aid this hard?

You know who should be proud of themselves for working at a company that doesn’t make money off of people’s private information, and is actually creating cutting edge technology and services that people just pay for? Amazon. Amazon has made the world a better place than Google and Facebook put together.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#253

Post by MarkMc »

jonathanyc wrote: post #49
Malarkey73 wrote: post #14

I know Google is profiling me and harvesting my data. But it's not using me to harvest my friends information. I know Google is targeting ads at me - and they maybe AB tested. But those ads are from real companies or organisations - they aren't fake bots or astroturf groups algorithmically designed to tell me what I want to hear. I'm sceptically watchful of Google, I feel I have a social contract with them where they…

I sure as hell don't think my Grandma or Dad would have realized that Google's dark pattern[1] "opt-out" dialogs asking if they want to "make Android better" actually were asking for permission to send their location on a minute-by-minute basis to Google. How do you think Google populates their "Popular Times" card on search results?[2] Do you believe that even a simple majority of people going to a hospital, say, fo…

I can't see anything wrong with the opt-out screen during Android setup [1]

The option you refer to says, "Help improve your Android experience by automatically sending diagnostic and usage data to Google."

There is a separate option which says in part, "Anonymous location data will be sent to Google, even when no apps are running".

That seems pretty clear to me - I can't see any dark pattern.

[1] https://fscl01.fonpit.de/userfiles/6473479/image/Nexus_5_mar...

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#254

Post by hcnews »

gdwatson wrote: post #247
hcnews wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in the US can actions regarding firearms be considered a political move. (Most of) Rest of the world sees it as a safety issue and is happy to give away their firearms.

The U.S. has a somewhat different take from much of the world on several civil liberties issues, including freedom of speech and freedom of religion. As an American I'm quite proud of that fact.

Proudness is quite an unimportant emotion when the betterment of human society is at stake. In fact, there are tons of examples where proudness leads to blindness (most probably close to 100% of the time). I personally explicitly try not to be proud of anything to avoid any oversight.

Anyways, its interesting to see how people frequently forget about progress and hold on to old ideas. They forget the importance of continuously fixing problems. They also forget that usually the solution to a problem is usually the simplest one (especially one that's been proven).

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#255

Post by paulie_a »

libdjml wrote: post #164
paulie_a wrote: post #66

One of the few times a headline ends with a question mark the obvious answer is in fact: "yes" Google is evil. Facebook is worse.

I know I have an unexplainable bias toward seeing google as inherently positive to society, so I’m keen to hear what makes you think google is evil?

I don't agree that collecting private data is "inherently positive to society" considering the result is low quality advertising

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#256

Post by product50 »

joering2 wrote: post #233
product50 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot be honest if you are asking this question. You are comparing MapQuest with Google Maps and are asking me, in all earnest, what is that I find better in GMaps? Similarly with Protonmail and GMail. How about email spam to start with? Or maybe email search? What about automatic filters? Or what about the fact the Protonmail is a subscription service if you want to use their advanced features.

I don't get any spam on Protonmail, they already have strong filters. I don't use any automatic filters, but I could use their "Bridge" tools and install Bat on my Laptop and setup filters this way. Way more advance features in Bat than in Gmail. Protonmail is subscription service, true. But just like I can afford $5 per day for a good coffee, I can afford $1 per day for a secure, encrypted email; although I can beli…

Just because you don't use automatic filters doesn't mean every else doesn't use it. Just because you can pay $30/mo subscription doesn't mean every else can or are willing to pay it. Just because you don't want to be Google's product doesn't mean every else doesn't want to be the same. So just stop it.

You seriously had the audacity here to compare GMail (a wonderful free product) with Protonmail (a $365/yr product) and ask me why I don't find it as a good replacement. At the very least, have some empathy man.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#257

Post by CaptSpify »

Ivoirians wrote: post #70

Disclaimer: I work for Google and these views are only my opinion, etc. From my perspective, Google's goals are aligned with improving the world by offering information services. Search, Gmail, Maps, Translate, basically all of the Other Bets, etc.--it's easy to imagine that the people behind them are more concerned with impact on the world than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power. To me, Facebook ha…

> From my perspective, Google's goals are aligned with improving the world by offering information services. Search, Gmail, Maps, Translate, basically all of the Other Bets, etc.--it's easy to imagine that the people behind them are more concerned with impact on the world than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power.

I completely believe that the people behind them are more concerned with impact than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power, but good intentions only get you so far. Google is still abusing it's power, whether that is the goal of the people behind it or not. Google could build those systems in a way that protects their user's privacy, but choose not to, simply because they are optimizing for profit, rather than for empowering their users.

Most people aren't scared of the intentions of the good people at Google, it's that Google clearly has too many people with bad intentions in the mix as well, based on the actions that the company takes as a whole.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#258

Post by bartbutler »

product50 wrote: post #205
joering2 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly curious what you have against DuckDuckGo or Protonmail, same with MapQuest.

You cannot be honest if you are asking this question. You are comparing MapQuest with Google Maps and are asking me, in all earnest, what is that I find better in GMaps? Similarly with Protonmail and GMail. How about email spam to start with? Or maybe email search? What about automatic filters? Or what about the fact the Protonmail is a subscription service if you want to use their advanced features.

ProtonMail does have filters...am I missing something?

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#259

Post by CaptSpify »

libdjml wrote: post #162
tzakrajs wrote: post #128

Forget scary. Let's talk about utility. Facebook gives you distraction but Google gives you information (YouTube, Google Search, GMail, Maps, Voice, Fiber, Project Fi, etc) and is more restrictive about how it lets partners use its platform to interact with users.

This 100% Google build genuinely useful products, and use the knowledge it gains about you to show (generally somewhat useful) ads, and generally stays out of your way. Facebook on the other hand desperately tries to manipulate you into consuming as much time as possible on their platform at almost any cost, using lowest common denominator tricks.

I agree with everything you said except for "generally stays out of your way."

Try blocking all Google domains via a hosts file, and you'll see that they have put their hooks into all kinds of systems, and do so in ways that seriously impede how normal web-pages should function.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#260

Post by CaptSpify »

gerash wrote: post #150

I personally prefer Google over FB. I haven't deleted my FB account because that's my contact list of some sort but I am not very active. I guess I prefer the Snapchat model where what you post doesn't stick around forever. I'm not fond of the aggressive, greedy bro attitude of FB in moving fast and breaking things. On the other hand I use Google services all the time. Folks whining about data collection should reali…

> Folks whining about data collection should realize Google hasn't decided to be an ad company, it's just they have succeeded monetizing it better than their more recent cloud offering and in future their hardware business.

Yet they still don't offer paid options, that allow me to remain anonymous for almost all of their systems. I don't see how anyone can imply that Google is reluctantly in the ad business when they don't even offer alternative monetization models.

Post reply on HN