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Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

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Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#91

Post by thomastjeffery »

some_account wrote: post #87
drawkbox wrote: post #11

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

No. Which company is more powerful with your information? That little ISP who has no real use of it, or Google, the most powerful ad agency with ties to American agencies in the world? You may be able to bypass Google but almost everybody else won't. It's time to open your eyes for what they are.

ISPs collecting data means ISPs selling data to corporations like Google, so the concern is still the same.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#92

Post by aylmao »

Malarkey73 wrote: post #14

I know Google is profiling me and harvesting my data. But it's not using me to harvest my friends information. I know Google is targeting ads at me - and they maybe AB tested. But those ads are from real companies or organisations - they aren't fake bots or astroturf groups algorithmically designed to tell me what I want to hear. I'm sceptically watchful of Google, I feel I have a social contract with them where they…

> those ads are from real companies or organisations - they aren't fake bots or astroturf groups algorithmically designed to tell me what I want to hear.

How do you know this? As far as we know Google was also used to spread misinformation by Russian entities in the elections [1]. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Google invented targeted advertising. Hell, this is the company that boasted about A/B testing shades of blue to earn themselves $200m [2].

Sidenote: Google doesn't have access to your social information or what you "like", which was the reason behind Google+ and the big push to integrate it with Gmail and Youtube. The fact Google failed to get the same breath of social and preference information Facebook has doesn't mean they're more concerned with privacy, it just means they were late to the game and failed.

Google is more zealous about keeping its data to its own though.

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/10/09...

[2]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/05/why-googl...

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#93

Post by robotresearcher »

some_account wrote: post #87
drawkbox wrote: post #11

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

No. Which company is more powerful with your information? That little ISP who has no real use of it, or Google, the most powerful ad agency with ties to American agencies in the world? You may be able to bypass Google but almost everybody else won't. It's time to open your eyes for what they are.

ISPs can sell it to Google, no?

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#94

Post by sincerely »

joering2 wrote: post #37
product50 wrote: post #21

If FB goes down for one day it is a minor inconvenience. If Google goes down for one day, I am literally at a standstill. No Maps, no Search, no GMail, no YouTube, no Photos! I don't know how I will get through the day without these services :( As such, with Google, I am more than ok them using my data to target me ads since it does feel a mutually beneficial relationship.

With Mapquest, DuckDuckGo, Protonmail, AOL Videos and imgUrl?

imgur is nearly unusable these days, they keep removing features and trying to prevent people from actually using it as an image host.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#95

Post by droidist2 »

draggnar wrote: post #76
product50 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am happy to pay them money or pay with data. Choose your thing. We can't just keep on operating in a world where everything is free and we don't want targeted ads. And I never used "I'm so very happy". This is where biases come in. My goal was to say that Google services are very useful (to me) and I am ok if in return I have to give them my data.

I'm very happy to pay them, just like a utility.

I don't feel like many people would though, even if it was a one-time $0.99 purchase.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#96

Post by robotresearcher »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #25
sykh wrote: post #8

What is scary is the unregulated way in which massive amounts of data can be used to sway public opinion so easily. What is even scarier than this is the way in which those in power can use massive amounts of data to sway public opinion without oversight. The very notion of a republican form of government may end up needing to be reanalyzed. Forget concentrating on Google or Facebook. There is a larger concern. If mu…

Clinton only won the popular vote by a few million, so I don't think she was able to sway public opinion very much. What might have been 46% is now 48%, at worst. That's hardly mass mind control.

How many millions of people do you need before it’s mass?

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#97

Post by drawkbox »

some_account wrote: post #87
drawkbox wrote: post #11

Your ISP tracking your every move is scarier than all of them after the ISP privacy bill passed. At least Facebook and Google give you something for it and you can route around them if you desire. No routing around ISPs unless you use a VPN but even then they are blocking those. Broadband/cable/telcos capture everything you do and can now sell that information and do[1]. That bill was the pre-cursor to removing net n…

No. Which company is more powerful with your information? That little ISP who has no real use of it, or Google, the most powerful ad agency with ties to American agencies in the world? You may be able to bypass Google but almost everybody else won't. It's time to open your eyes for what they are.

> That little ISP who has no real use of it

Those little ISPs like Comcast, Verizon, Cox, AT&T etc. I can't imagine those small companies would want your data or want to use it after bribing politicians to get the right to do it.

Everyone knows Google tracks you, same with Facebook. They offer a service and people understand that. You aren't paying you are the product.

You are paying your ISP for access to the internet and privacy, or at least that used to be a selling point. You are paying AND you are the product and they have competitive services they want you to use so they'll mess with competitors. Your entry to the internet should be objective and independent, what you use on top of that is up to you. You can still route around Google and Facebook, you simply cannot route around your ISP.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#98

Post by knuththetruth »

Ivoirians wrote: post #70

Disclaimer: I work for Google and these views are only my opinion, etc. From my perspective, Google's goals are aligned with improving the world by offering information services. Search, Gmail, Maps, Translate, basically all of the Other Bets, etc.--it's easy to imagine that the people behind them are more concerned with impact on the world than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power. To me, Facebook ha…

Google is helping the government drone people, Schmidt was the head of the Defense Innovation Board, they sell surveillance services to police departments, Google Shopping was on autopilot until a couple of weeks, making money off selling bump stocks and other gun mods to people.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I think you have to take a very narrow and convenient view of Google to end up thinking your employer is any "better" than Facebook (who I otherwise agree is awful).

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/06/google-is-quietly-provid...

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/04/05/silicon-valley-be...

https://thebaffler.com/latest/oakland-surveillance-levine

https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/967509077591867392?lang=...

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#99

Post by anarazel »

Ivoirians wrote: post #70

Disclaimer: I work for Google and these views are only my opinion, etc. From my perspective, Google's goals are aligned with improving the world by offering information services. Search, Gmail, Maps, Translate, basically all of the Other Bets, etc.--it's easy to imagine that the people behind them are more concerned with impact on the world than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power. To me, Facebook ha…

OTOH, google's ad-models have thoroughly broken models of financing reporting that wasn't as reliant on clickbait to even get seen. While surely not the sole culprit, the need to create engagedness at all cost has increased polarization and also has a mental health cost.

Youtube is serving as a major driver of different forms of radicalization (ISIS, alt right, etc).

I'm not saying that you should resign. But I do think we all have the tendency to not evenly attempt to assuage technology risks. Partially there's an attention bias towards specific concerns (e.g. free speech / censorship), partially a negative attention bias towards things that pay our bills.

Re: Is Facebook Really Scarier Than Google?

#100

Post by gdwatson »

Ivoirians wrote: post #70

Disclaimer: I work for Google and these views are only my opinion, etc. From my perspective, Google's goals are aligned with improving the world by offering information services. Search, Gmail, Maps, Translate, basically all of the Other Bets, etc.--it's easy to imagine that the people behind them are more concerned with impact on the world than on generating profit or consolidating Google's power. To me, Facebook ha…

Google's idea of improving the world is hardly apolitical. Consider the YouTube rule changes on firearms -- whether or not they improve the world is going to depend on your views, but Google is surely throwing its weight around in a political way.
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