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Game Workers Unite

gameworkersunite.org

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Re: Game Workers Unite

#181

Post by vvanders »

sangnoir wrote: post #143
gnarbarian wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades gaming has been the programmer equivalent of the waiter-actor/waitress-actress in Hollywood trying for their big break. The competitiveness and desire to work there is what drives these insane working conditions. The big difference is this: If you have the skills to work in the gaming industry, you also have the skills to work in another software industry that will compensate you appropriately. Nobody nee…

> For decades gaming has been the programmer equivalent of the waiter-actor/waitress-actress in Hollywood trying for their big break The game industry is not made up entirely of programmers! There are lots of other roles that do not map to the software industry such as animators, modelers and artists. They can't just switch to making enterprise CRUD apps. Even the programmers might have difficulty meeting the require…

Yup totally and I'd argue that if you have chops for Game Design then you probably would also do very well doing IxD[1].

If you're an animator there's plenty of gigs doing motion design in places you wouldn't consider.

I know a ton of ex-gamedev who've landed in these roles and done quite well.

[1] Interaction Design

Re: Game Workers Unite

#183

Post by Pinkertron »

petee wrote: post #107

One of my relatives works for a large well known game developer; same employer for years. Because they decide to classify many of their devs as contract workers, they are denied rights afforded to 'full-time' employees - when she is laid off for months at a time (to prevent being called a full-time) she can't collect unemployment. No health care, no benefits whatsoever. And due to contracts, can't work for a rival ei…

The perfect system /s

Re: Game Workers Unite

#184

Post by tacostakohashi »

sangnoir wrote: post #119
petee wrote: post #107

One of my relatives works for a large well known game developer; same employer for years. Because they decide to classify many of their devs as contract workers, they are denied rights afforded to 'full-time' employees - when she is laid off for months at a time (to prevent being called a full-time) she can't collect unemployment. No health care, no benefits whatsoever. And due to contracts, can't work for a rival ei…

I'm amazed that this is legal in a first world country- it would be illegal to do this in a couple of third-world countries I'm personally familiar with: the laws state that if you're a on contract for more than a certain number of months, you automatically become a permanent employee. Firing and rehiring for the same position as a contractor is straight-up illegal.

I'm not too amazed - a flexible labor market is widely regarded as something that attracts industry, and hence creates first-world countries.

Conversely, inflexible labor markets are something that keeps third-world countries how they are.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#185

Post by driverdan »

giantsloth wrote: post #31
driverdan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do "software workers/codewriters" need a union? It's an employee's market.

In NYC you expected to be at work at most companies for 9-10 hours a day, you are expected to go to all their social events, and you are expected to act like a logic lording startup bro (even when the company is far past the startup stage). Sure, they give you free treats, sure it's not hard to come by a job, but you are still ultimately expected to give up your autonomy to become a startup stooge.

That would give a hiring advantage to companies that don't demand that.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#186

Post by Pinkertron »

parmesan wrote: post #177
petee wrote: post #107

One of my relatives works for a large well known game developer; same employer for years. Because they decide to classify many of their devs as contract workers, they are denied rights afforded to 'full-time' employees - when she is laid off for months at a time (to prevent being called a full-time) she can't collect unemployment. No health care, no benefits whatsoever. And due to contracts, can't work for a rival ei…

You should advice your relative to just get another job, dunno why anyone would bother working under such conditions.

I used to be poor until someone on the internet told me to work hard.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#187

Post by sangnoir »

tacostakohashi wrote: post #184
sangnoir wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed that this is legal in a first world country- it would be illegal to do this in a couple of third-world countries I'm personally familiar with: the laws state that if you're a on contract for more than a certain number of months, you automatically become a permanent employee. Firing and rehiring for the same position as a contractor is straight-up illegal.

I'm not too amazed - a flexible labor market is widely regarded as something that attracts industry, and hence creates first-world countries. Conversely, inflexible labor markets are something that keeps third-world countries how they are.

France and Germany pretty much disprove this model.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#188

Post by jpttsn »

vinceguidry wrote: post #179
jpttsn wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you’re coming from with the “screw loose” comment, but think you skip past a very real desire for self governance: A “startup” that drone-feeds pigeons in the park could make the case that I enjoy the benefits of well-fed pigeons, and that I should be prepared to pay. As great as pigeons are, I might feel diminished by the startup’s posture, which betrays low esteem for my ability to allocate my resources…

Governance fits into the space where people don't want to self-manage. The average neighborhood doesn't want to bother spending the time or effort to vet possible service providers, let alone a pigeon feeder. They're paying dues precisely for the privilege of letting other people decide. They don't always agree, but that's what the monthly meetings are for. Eventually everyone agrees on the scope of governance.

But if they don’t want to self-manage, what have you got to lose by giving them the choice?

Is this the kind of want that is distinct from what they say they want?

Re: Game Workers Unite

#189

Post by EliRivers »

jpttsn wrote: post #168
EliRivers wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many unions don't demand dues from other people just to work in the same industry. A lot of people here (not you particularly; just that I might as well say it somewhere) have a very stereotyped view of what a union does, seeing it as some kind of compulsory enforcer that ties its members hands and goes around stopping outsiders working. I can't speak for everywhere, but my experience of unions in the UK is very diff…

I don’t know about propaganda but experiences are different in different nations. Is “many unions don’t” really a good argument? If some unions do, we could discuss whether the Game Workes union would, as go does.

Okey dokey. To my knowledge, in my country, no unions do. It's beyond their remit.

I suspect, but cannot prove, that today in the US a new union will not be able to make everyone stop writing game software. What do you think? Is that within their power?

Re: Game Workers Unite

#190

Post by vinceguidry »

jpttsn wrote: post #188
vinceguidry wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governance fits into the space where people don't want to self-manage. The average neighborhood doesn't want to bother spending the time or effort to vet possible service providers, let alone a pigeon feeder. They're paying dues precisely for the privilege of letting other people decide. They don't always agree, but that's what the monthly meetings are for. Eventually everyone agrees on the scope of governance.

But if they don’t want to self-manage, what have you got to lose by giving them the choice? Is this the kind of want that is distinct from what they say they want ?

OK, I think an example is in order. Let's say you want to not live in a neighborhood with a bunch of weirdo dicks. The kinds of weirdo dicks that will paint their house bright neon purple and erect a large statue of a dick in the front yard.

But you don't want to do the actual work of coming up with a set of rules for everyone to live by. For the very good reason that that crap is hard and thankless and nobody's going to agree with every rule.

So you empower a homeowner's association to do it for you. This is a form of governance empowered to set rules that the neighborhood has to follow. Residents just have to pay the dues in order to ensure that their wishes are followed.

Self-management in this case is calling the cops and hoping they can sort your neighbor out.

You call it governance when you have to impose rules on others. It's annoying and ugly but someone's gotta do the job of exercising the will of the many onto the few that don't feel like they should follow the rules.

If you don't want to live under an HOA, you don't buy into a community that has one.

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