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Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

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Re: Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

#471

Post by ameister14 »

chrischen wrote: post #251
Turing_Machine wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think the Hawaii example was rhetorical" And my point was that it was a very poor analogy. "we even have laws against doing business with BDS supporters in some states" Link? I see some laws against state governments doing business with those companies, but nothing that says that a private business (like Marriott) has to fire supporters of that movement, nor do we have laws that prohibit those companies from doing…

US government banned contractors using China-manufactured electronics. You can make up all sorts of excuses about how it’s for national security, but from the otherside it looks like the US is simply unfairly preventing a Chinese company from competing in a foreign market that it has not natural entitlement to. Whether or not the reasons for it are true, the reality is it has real financial consequences for Chinese e…

That's a completely different case than preventing private companies from engaging with BDS supporters. If you were talking about the government preventing Holiday Inn from taking reservations from BDS supporters, that might fit, but you're talking about a proposed bill to prevent the government from doing business with contractors using foreign electronics systems. That bill is very unlikely to pass, by the way.

Re: Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

#472

Post by falcolas »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #282
falcolas wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, there is a bigger problem with at will employment than being able to be fired at any time. If your employer wants to change your contract in almost any fashion, their continued employment of you is considered to be sufficient “consideration” for the change. They want to put you on call? No extra pay required. Change you to the night shift? You still have a job, that’s sufficient. It’s an employee right…

> They want to put you on call? No extra pay required. Change you to the night shift? You still have a job, that’s sufficient. How is it not? You can always threaten to quit if they don't give you a raise. The only way that doesn't work is if they can easily replace you with someone willing to work harder for less money. And in that case that's what they're supposed to do. You would only be willing to quit if you had…

I keep seeing this "supposed to do" tossed around when it comes to companies abusing their employees (and yes, changing an employees contract without more consideration than "keep working" is abusing an employee) like it's some kind of divine directive that drives capitalist corporations.

It's not. A company can treat its employees well and still be profitable. There is no law that says the only job of a company is to maximize profits for shareholders; in fact, this has gone to court and judged to not be the case. So, no, a company is not "supposed" to do these kinds of underhanded things. Just because they can - just because it's legal - doesn't mean they should.

Re: Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

#473

Post by Broken_Hippo »

drawkbox wrote: post #307

A data bill of rights might be the issue of our time. No matter if you are in a free country or anywhere in the world, people should be able to have opinion that is represented in their digital form. The US could lead on this and we would be smart to push for it. Also, maybe with our surveillance society there is some path to forgiveness if people makes mistakes. Everything now is too much of a permanent record which…

It is unfortunate that the US seems to not be serious about rights not already in the Constitution. In international agreements, it seems to sign but not ratify them.

(1) https://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2013/10/why-us-so... (2) https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/10/e... (3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_treaties_unsigned_or_u...

In addition, the current political climate seems to want to remove some protections already in the constitution and I would think other countries would be hesitant to enter agreements such as these with the US, considering things like backing out of trade agreements and the Paris climate agreement.

Re: Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

#475

Post by AnthonyMouse »

your-nanny wrote: post #434
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They want to put you on call? No extra pay required. Change you to the night shift? You still have a job, that’s sufficient. How is it not? You can always threaten to quit if they don't give you a raise. The only way that doesn't work is if they can easily replace you with someone willing to work harder for less money. And in that case that's what they're supposed to do. You would only be willing to quit if you had…

Oh yeah the $14/hr employee is just gonna quit, because they can afford to go without income for the next few weeks while looking for a new one. Or not.

> Oh yeah the $14/hr employee is just gonna quit, because they can afford to go without income for the next few weeks while looking for a new one.

So spend a few weeks looking for a new job and then quit.

More importantly, you don't actually have to quit, you only have to make the credible threat of quitting. Then you get the raise because it's cheaper than finding and training a replacement.

Re: Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

#476

Post by prepend »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #136
jonathanyc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I wouldn’t be offended if a Chinese person suggested that all non Native Americans should leave America. I wouldn’t think that would be reasonable, although I would acknowledge that we could do much more to help rectify the situation that still exists today. I would likewise be not offended (but might feel slightly uncomfortable) if someone told me that California, my home state, should be returned to…

"But do you really think it is so unrealistic that many Americans would be offended by such a statement? " You can't control whether someone is offended. You can control whether you fire someone because someone else is offended.

You can control whether you respond to someone being offended. There’s a very long tail for offense and companies (and individuals) can work to recognize that responding to someone feeling offended (or claiming to) should be rare. Although it’s hard to differentiate when 100 people tweeting #imoffended is just 100 people or 100 people part of 1 million.

Re: Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

#477

Post by briandear »

Tehnix wrote: post #370
greglindahl wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, we call this argument "Red Baiting". Sure, let's accuse our opponent of starving 10s of millions of people to death! When there's a financial problem, there are multiple differing opinions as to what's reasonable. But if you want to call the US the "only developed place without reasonable worker laws", you might want to consider Denmark. Because they don't have the opinion you're propagating.

Comparing to Denmark, which has way better employee laws than the US, is weird regardless because of the difference in unemployment benefits and general safety net there is in Denmark. Free hospitals, free education, etc.

"Free?"

The personal income tax rate averaged 60.45% in Denmark from 1995-2018.

Those are some of the most expensive "free" hospitals and universities I've ever heard of.

Re: Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

#478

Post by Broken_Hippo »

erikb wrote: post #306

a) It can't be a dream job if you get fired for liking a tweet. The dream job only existed in your head and getting fired hit you with the truth that your fantasy ad reality don't match. b) Midnight on-call support is not a dream job. Have you ever worked in anything that is close to customers? These jobs are a pain in the a and mostly underpaid. Also you can always, always find another job like that. c) He didn't ge…

For a) Sure, that changed the "dream job"... but come on, it seems he didn't think that a simple mistake could raise such a stir. And it seems a misguided like would generally be something reprimanded instead of it losing your job. This situation was weirdly blown out of proportion for numerous reasons, which weren't his fault. As far as we know, everything leading up to that moment could have seemed reasonable enough to the man.

for b: That's nearly twice the minimum wage. It isn't manual labour, you aren't doing collections, and they likely offer decent health insurance for call center employees on top of a couple weeks vacation and a little bit of flexibility. Sure, there are going to be stressful nights, but others will be full of other sorts of people. Who is to say that can't be someone's dream job?

Re: Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

#479

Post by EpicEng »

chrischen wrote: post #251
Turing_Machine wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think the Hawaii example was rhetorical" And my point was that it was a very poor analogy. "we even have laws against doing business with BDS supporters in some states" Link? I see some laws against state governments doing business with those companies, but nothing that says that a private business (like Marriott) has to fire supporters of that movement, nor do we have laws that prohibit those companies from doing…

US government banned contractors using China-manufactured electronics. You can make up all sorts of excuses about how it’s for national security, but from the otherside it looks like the US is simply unfairly preventing a Chinese company from competing in a foreign market that it has not natural entitlement to. Whether or not the reasons for it are true, the reality is it has real financial consequences for Chinese e…

Reasons matter.

Re: Omaha man ‘liked’ a tweet, then lost his job

#480

Post by dragontamer »

chrischen wrote: post #56
lostlogin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were in China would you really find it insulting that Tibet is considered by some to be its own country? It was invaded, and I can’t really see any other way to characterise what happened.

That depends if you think some Americans would be offended if you claimed Hawaii was its own country. It was also invaded and then forcibly gentrified and colonized. That's not to even mention the entirety of the United States. It's not so much if China has legitimate claims on Tibet so much as it's the pot calling the kettle black. The greatest conquerer on Earth and its modern beneficiaries telling another country…

Offended? Maybe. But 1st Amendment means that you are allowed to do that in America, generally speaking.

Case in point: our current President called the last President a Muslim born in Kenya. People take offense, but overall its an understanding that speech is free in the USA.

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