And Media Matters, Correct The Record, Twitter, Facebook, Google, CNN, NBC, Comcast, Dreamworks, Microsoft, Fahr LLC and many others helped Hillary but failed miserably.
Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
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Re: Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
#12No, they didn’t. Trump won because people liked his message. Plain and simple. These companies existed long before 2016 and if they couldn’t help other legitimate candidates get elected, what could they have done so magical for Trump? Is it really so hard to believe that people didn’t like Hillary and didn’t think that another 8 years of the same would be good for them?
First of all, I'd argue the effectiveness of marketing is pretty well established.
Second, I do think you have a point. To some degree these kinds of tactics have been employed before, but a) perhaps not as maliciously as this time, and b) I believe the landscape of 'influence' changed with the arrival of phenomena like Facebook as mobile phones, and perhaps it just took a while to properly 'weaponise' them.
On the one hand, I feel that this whole kerfuffle is a bit too hysterical considering, as you say, these companies existed before 2016. But on the other hand, many people worried about these things before and it's only now that the concerns are getting (hopefully) the attention they deserve. That's a good thing.
So while I think you have a point, ultimately I don't agree with your conclusion. I do not think it was 'just' that people didn't like Hillary and somehow happened to choose against their own interest.
Re: Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
#13And Facebook directly helped Obama in 2012. But rather than getting all partisan about it - the debate needs to be is this OK for any politician of any alignment?
Yes, but I say we take what we can get as far as mainstream attention, for now.
Re: Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
#14Propaganda works.
The rah rah USA USA USA bullshit of my youth took a long time to get deprogrammed from my brain. Marketing/propaganda toward youths is even more insidious and effective over a lifetime. Although, facebook/twitter/etc have really upped the game for adults.
Re: Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it’s hard to believe that when you consider Hillary won the popular vote.
... based almost entirely on votes from one, unusually populous state, with different economics and demographics from the rest of the country. Winning one state by a landslide and losing 48 others (or whatever the exact numbers were) by a hairsbreadth still means you lost in 47 states. Hillary quite openly stated that she didn't care about the so-called "flyover" states (the "deplorables"), why is anyone surprised th…
Not true in the slightest - Hillary won basically every single urban area. That was true across the whole nation.
Where the most people are, actually interacting with folks from different backgrounds and places, she won.
You’re spreading the same lies that were bought and paid for by people like CA. It’s no surprise you’re arguing against the effectiveness of these people: you’re the poster child for their victims.
Re: Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
#16No, they didn’t. Trump won because people liked his message. Plain and simple. These companies existed long before 2016 and if they couldn’t help other legitimate candidates get elected, what could they have done so magical for Trump? Is it really so hard to believe that people didn’t like Hillary and didn’t think that another 8 years of the same would be good for them?
More people voted for Hillary Clinton than voted for Donald Trump. You are generalizing your hatred of her to be a country wide fact. this is how propaganda works, by creating narratives.
Re: Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
#17No, they didn’t. Trump won because people liked his message. Plain and simple. These companies existed long before 2016 and if they couldn’t help other legitimate candidates get elected, what could they have done so magical for Trump? Is it really so hard to believe that people didn’t like Hillary and didn’t think that another 8 years of the same would be good for them?
> Is it really so hard to believe that people didn’t like Hillary and didn’t think that another 8 years of the same would be good for them?
Yes it's unthinkable for a particularly vocal portion of the electorate that rabidly supported her and Clinton herself. Hence the non-stop "X rigged the system for Trump ... it's the only explanation!" rather than holistically looking at the causes of defeat.
The simplest example of this is Clinton not visiting a swing state like Wisconsin at all during the election. Compare that to Trump holding ten rallies there[1]. Is it really a shocker that a State chose the candidate that actually went to their doors, spoke to them, and listened to them?
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rallies_for_the_Donald...
Re: Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
#18And Facebook directly helped Obama in 2012. But rather than getting all partisan about it - the debate needs to be is this OK for any politician of any alignment?
Equating the two strategies is to be technically ignorant of the methods and quite dishonest in the comparison tbh.
The only similarity is they both used social media.
Re: Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
#19So are we at the point where we believe the presentation of the message, vice the content of the message decides american politics? It seems like maybe we should try to understand why the message was so effective?
Because the US electorate has shown itself to be, over the last 40-50 years, easily manipulated against “the other”?
The fact that Reagan - one of those destructive and incidiously evil influences on modern US politics - isn’t villified but in fact bizarrely lionized by a large section of the population should be proof of that enough.
Re: Analyst: Cambridge Analytica, Palantir and Quid Helped Trump Win Election (2017)
#20No, they didn’t. Trump won because people liked his message. Plain and simple. These companies existed long before 2016 and if they couldn’t help other legitimate candidates get elected, what could they have done so magical for Trump? Is it really so hard to believe that people didn’t like Hillary and didn’t think that another 8 years of the same would be good for them?
First of all, I'd argue the effectiveness of marketing is pretty well established. Second, I do think you have a point. To some degree these kinds of tactics have been employed before, but a) perhaps not as maliciously as this time, and b) I believe the landscape of 'influence' changed with the arrival of phenomena like Facebook as mobile phones, and perhaps it just took a while to properly 'weaponise' them. On the o…
> I do not think it was 'just' that people didn't like Hillary and somehow happened to choose against their own interest.
This is exactly the flawed takeaway from this election.
Mainstream voters kept telling us that they are not optimistic about their economic future, they kept complaining about their jobs going overseas, they kept complaining about immigration and our response was: ”it is better for you”.
We lost 2016 and will lose 2020.
Political advertising has existed for a long time. In news papers, radio, tv, and on social media. Most advertisers and political ad agencies will tell you that pschographic targeting isn’t useful at all. The only thing that works is raise money or “get out the vote” campaigns.