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Game Workers Unite

gameworkersunite.org

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Re: Game Workers Unite

#161

Post by pjc50 »

hueving wrote: post #146
door3 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every person under capitalism has to sell their labor in order to survive. This means that the employee and employer are not on equal footing - I cannot reasonably refuse to work and live a comfortable lifestyle, which means I have to make certain sacrifices (ie, working 40 hours a week in order to survive). This is all fine if I feel like I am treated well and compensated fairly, but if I feel like I am not, as an i…

This comment seems to ignore the large portion of people that operate as small businesses. They make money by selling products they create or services they provide, not raw labor to customers. You certainly can choose not to work for any given company (or even industry). You just might take a pay cut or might have to take on some personal financial risks to start your own business, which isn't palatable to some peopl…

> isn't palatable to some people

And doesn't seem to be economically viable for everyone to do, or we'd already be doing it.

The main financial risk for people is that cashflow problems can lead pretty rapidly to homelessness or health deterioration.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#162

Post by alkonaut »

ugh123 wrote: post #12

Consider some of the negative affects of unions when working alongside low and high performers in technology: - Protection for under performers alongside high performers. Difficult or darn near impossible to terminate employment. Ability to enforce performance evaluation and plans could be killed by the union. Common in teacher unions. - Without being able to measure performance, pay may be solely based on tenure, no…

Those are risks to both employers and employees. The idea is that employees accept measures employers want ( layoffs, performance evaluations) in return for security (full time contract that gives unemployment benefits, medical etc).

Re: Game Workers Unite

#163

Post by sgroppino »

watwut wrote: post #152
gnarbarian wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades gaming has been the programmer equivalent of the waiter-actor/waitress-actress in Hollywood trying for their big break. The competitiveness and desire to work there is what drives these insane working conditions. The big difference is this: If you have the skills to work in the gaming industry, you also have the skills to work in another software industry that will compensate you appropriately. Nobody nee…

Majority of workers in game industry are artists, not programmers. And programmers are not the ones having "big breaks" or ability to influence what the game is going to be like.

It will be interesting to see some stats on this breakdown.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#164

Post by watwut »

sgroppino wrote: post #163
watwut wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority of workers in game industry are artists, not programmers. And programmers are not the ones having "big breaks" or ability to influence what the game is going to be like.

It will be interesting to see some stats on this breakdown.

One place to look at is credits in games that have credits.

Look at all the details in big games - people drawing those details are not programmers.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#165

Post by Meph504 »

49531 wrote: post #55
Meph504 wrote: post #49

I see a lot of people arguing about how unions protect workers, and in some cases that is true, but in my experience many have been corrupted. You only have to look at the coal workers, steel workers, and several other unions, that's leadership has been corrupted, and serve their own interest at the expense of everyone else. Additionally, things like agency fees, where even if you work somewhere with a Union, and you…

Half of what you just said is neoliberal anti-union propaganda. A lot of people in blue collar unions get a ton of value from them. Teamsters and Boilermakers have rights protected by their unions. Yea unions have lost battles or become corrupted, but they're leaders are also elected. What you think your CEO is going to be any better? Then there are also unions for more middle to higher class groups. Writers unions,…

Ideally, Unions exist to do that, but like many institutions, overtime they drift and are distorted away from their purpose, and mainly serve to preserve their own institution.

I can't speak to how unions are all over the country, and I can't deny that unions have played a positive role in the day to day lives of workers.

But what I've personally seen working in heavy industry, both the stevedoring and the steel industry. Is that unions serve themselves first, and their members secondly, and if those places that have union security agreements.

The unions force non-members to basically make their lives hell.

At the same time, the union agreed to a salary freeze for all its members for a 3 year period. It doesn't matter if you are the best at what you doing in the world, we couldn't compensate you more to retain that employee if we wanted it.

Ask anyone who works in the Port of Los Angeles about the unions, they have locked out all technologies from automation or even telemetry unless those companies sign contracts with union vendors, etc.. etc..

My opinion isn't based on theory, or propaganda, It's from seeing everyday. Which, I highly doubt most of the people condemning my viewpoint can say.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#167

Post by JetSpiegel »

xstartup wrote: post #160
mLuby wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Evidence of women being underpaid (in tech)? Definitely got evidence, both anecdotal and US-wide. 2. You didn't answer my hypothetical, but I'll answer yours: If my salary doesn't change but Alice gets a raise, good for her, doesn't bother me. If I never got hired I don't care about Alice's salary, likewise if she never got hired. Anyway, the parent comment complained "why would I want my salary to be the same as…

A department gets X budget, low-value employees making more money = high-value employee making less. 2. I am bothered if co-workers make more than me even when I am more important for the project and do more.

> A department gets X budget, low-value employees making more money = high-value employee making less

Just like when I win in the stock market, that money comes from Warren Buffet's earnings.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#168

Post by jpttsn »

EliRivers wrote: post #156
cabaalis wrote: post #70

I see no problem with game workers unionizing, but when I want to release my indie game on itch or steam and I am stopped because I have to pay dues to the union, we'll have a very real and unfriendly discussion.

Many unions don't demand dues from other people just to work in the same industry. A lot of people here (not you particularly; just that I might as well say it somewhere) have a very stereotyped view of what a union does, seeing it as some kind of compulsory enforcer that ties its members hands and goes around stopping outsiders working. I can't speak for everywhere, but my experience of unions in the UK is very diff…

I don’t know about propaganda but experiences are different in different nations.

Is “many unions don’t” really a good argument? If some unions do, we could discuss whether the Game Workes union would, as go does.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#169

Post by pjmlp »

gnarbarian wrote: post #144
sangnoir wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For decades gaming has been the programmer equivalent of the waiter-actor/waitress-actress in Hollywood trying for their big break The game industry is not made up entirely of programmers! There are lots of other roles that do not map to the software industry such as animators, modelers and artists. They can't just switch to making enterprise CRUD apps. Even the programmers might have difficulty meeting the require…

And again I will claim that: "you also have the skills to work in another software industry that will compensate you appropriately" If you are capable of learning how to use the apps necessary to be a animator/modeler you DO have the skills to work in another industry! Nobody is entitled to work whatever job they want wherever they want, and nobody forced you to take out loans to get a degree in Art/3d modelling or a…

Actually, in Europe many countries do have unions for sport players as well.

Here is the Portuguese web site for football (soccer) just as an example, not going to list everything here.

http://sjogadores.pt/

Re: Game Workers Unite

#170

Post by pjmlp »

canthonytucci wrote: post #7

Why only game workers? Why not software workers/codewriters in general? I'd prefer something closer to SAG than the auto workers union personally.

Most European countries have unions for IT as well.

Not specifically for IT, rather something general like "industrial jobs" for example.

Also in those countries where engineering degrees are regulated, you can also appeal to the Engineers Order if something is going wrong.

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