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Game Workers Unite

gameworkersunite.org

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Re: Game Workers Unite

#91

Post by tvanantwerp »

zanny wrote: post #87
cabaalis wrote: post #70

I see no problem with game workers unionizing, but when I want to release my indie game on itch or steam and I am stopped because I have to pay dues to the union, we'll have a very real and unfriendly discussion.

Nobody can force you to join a union. The scenario you describe only applies if Itch or Steam agree to only take game submissions from union members, which would just prompt non-union alternatives.

Depending on your industry/employer, yes, you can be forced to join a union, or at least pay dues to it even if you're not a member.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#92

Post by Spooky23 »

microcolonel wrote: post #88
lalaithion wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarians should, in principle, be okay with people exercising their personal freedom to form a union.

Forming a union is no big deal, but if others don't have the right not to negotiate with or support that union by virtue of the type of work they're doing, it may as well be a government restriction on your right to pursue employment.

Why should you have a right to work at a particular place?

The workers with a democratic process negotiated with the management. You’re not special. Why should your unwillingness to participate impact the rights of others who freely entered into an agreement?

Re: Game Workers Unite

#93

Post by walru »

vvanders wrote: post #73
briandear wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the game industry is so rough, then why don’t workers quit and go work in non-game software or design? It’s because they CHOOSE to work on games and there are a lot of people that are willing to take lower pay and tougher conditions because they want to work in gaming. The implication being made that game devs are some kind of sweatshop slaves is ridiculous.

Wow, lot to unpack there. The thing is they generally do quit, if you look at Gamasutra's yearly industry survey you'll see a huge bimodal distribution of less than 3 years and 10+ years. The average industry career ends up being about 3 years. Here's a situation that I saw a lot when I was in the industry: 1. Get a new gig in a different town(usually because the previous studio cratered). Sell your house, move your…

They force people out who have 15+ years. (eg. It was age 37 for me). Thankfully they asked me to write documentation and train a bevy of testers to take my place before letting me go (once the eight race tracks for the game I was creating were completely designed).

The saddest thing (of this story)? This game, from a major mobile publisher, never even made it out of beta because their monetization component had no traction. As an aside, they also ended up scraping my tracks and replacing them with drone simple turn left/right then jump. Repeat. (because of the amount of work it was going to take to implement...)

That is one of too many stories. Truth is, nearly every/maybe all game development studios is poorly managed.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#94

Post by mLuby »

microcolonel wrote: post #89
mLuby wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothetical: if you could increase your salary from what it is, but your coworker who makes less would also get that new higher salary, would you go for it? Even if you think you're better than they are? To put some numbers on it: you're at $100k and Alice is at $90k (because she's a woman?). After unionizing, you'd get $110 and Alice would get $110. Would you do it?

> Alice is at $90k (because she's a woman?) Any evidence of this in practice? > After unionizing, you'd get $110 and Alice would get $110. Or maybe you'd both get $100, or maybe one of you would never be hired. You've got your hypotheticals, I've got mine.

1. Evidence of women being underpaid (in tech)? Definitely got evidence, both anecdotal and US-wide.

2. You didn't answer my hypothetical, but I'll answer yours: If my salary doesn't change but Alice gets a raise, good for her, doesn't bother me. If I never got hired I don't care about Alice's salary, likewise if she never got hired. Anyway, the parent comment complained "why would I want my salary to be the same as everyone else?" so that's what my hypothetical gets at.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#95

Post by petee »

lalaithion wrote: post #78
cabaalis wrote: post #70

I see no problem with game workers unionizing, but when I want to release my indie game on itch or steam and I am stopped because I have to pay dues to the union, we'll have a very real and unfriendly discussion.

Film unions don't regulate indie films — hopefully this will be much the same.

Film unions don't regulate anything - 'indie' films can/do use union crews, although under a different contract that pays less according to budget.

Large budget films use unions because we are the only ones skilled enough to do it properly & professionally; you just can't find 200 non-union to pull it off, not without someone getting hurt in the process, or having a terrible end result

Re: Game Workers Unite

#96

Post by Elidrake24 »

Stanleyc23 wrote: post #84
lalaithion wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Film unions don't regulate indie films — hopefully this will be much the same.

hmm, I would have assumed the writer's guild rules would still apply even if you're doing an indie film.

You can apply for the Low Budget Agreement on an indie film (defined as being under a particular budget amount I couldn't find), but it isn't required if you are in the guild. It was mainly created to protect individuals from larger studios - can't imagine much benefit from leveraging what are essentially personal projects.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#97

Post by pasquinelli »

briandear wrote: post #59
vvanders wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally software engineers have a better pay(30-50%) and work-life balance than the game industry as a whole. While the tech is similar the project cycles are usually quite different so I don't know if one-size-fits-all would get splintered by different concerns.

If the game industry is so rough, then why don’t workers quit and go work in non-game software or design? It’s because they CHOOSE to work on games and there are a lot of people that are willing to take lower pay and tougher conditions because they want to work in gaming. The implication being made that game devs are some kind of sweatshop slaves is ridiculous.

"If the game industry is so rough, then why don’t workers quit and go work in non-game software or design?"

they do, iirc after about 5 years, typically.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#98

Post by humanrebar »

giantsloth wrote: post #29
humanrebar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are reactionary organizations. They tend to create and enforce rules around how things work now . Unions don't like it if new technology lets two workers do the work of forty.

All organizations are reactionary and necessarily settle on the state of the world at the current moment. This is an extremely bizarre line of logic you are using. There is always version lock in at some point, and NO workers like change if it's going to cause them to lose their livelihood. This has nothing to do with unions. Why do you care more about protecting artificial constructs like companies at the expense of…

I honestly don't care about companies. But I don't care about union bosses either. Unions do just as poor a job as employers in preparing workers for tectonic shifts in employment patterns.

For example, when the ACA passed, unions were more concerned with their constituency and their carve outs than with decoupling employment from healthcare. Same story for all the business interests.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#99

Post by petee »

briandear wrote: post #58
49531 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All unions have concrete ways to make people's lives better. That's why they exist. This website glosses over them but they are pretty basic. Things like open salaries, control over agile process, overtime for on-call, overtime pay for crunch times, more control over hiring / firing.

Why would I want my salary to be the same as everyone else? If I am better than the next person and I am a better negotiator, why should my salary be identical to the lazy fuck that has the same number of years of experience? The mistake of these Marxist organizations is that they assume that workers are interchangeable parts. Maybe on an assembly line that is true, but engineering software or hardware or designing t…

Union contracts can set minimums, but you can negotiate higher. And in the end, if you suck, nobody will hire you. If you don't suck, you'll make atleast a great wage, if not higher. Not all unions have seniority rules; my union naturally filters out the crap people.

You are arguing that you should get more than the other guy, when in reality a decent contract can guarantee you both more than you alone might have earned.

And you are a member of a collective - society.

Re: Game Workers Unite

#100

Post by humanrebar »

ramy_d wrote: post #74
briandear wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. We have automated the build process. We don’t need you anymore. Thanks for your service, here’s two weeks’ severance. A union would go nuts in that scenario. Which then supports the theory that unions would oppose technology that improved efficiency since they would care more about the protecting the production input than they care about optimizing the production output.

Yeah because that's really shitty. If you actually cared about that person you wouldn't throw them out, you'd train and place them elsewhere within your company because they are good employees that contribute positively to your culture.

Unions are just as responsible for being myopic and irresponsible. Shouldn't the teamsters be leading the way in retraining truck drivers given the coming automated truck apocalypse?
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