"We are a currently-forming anonymous and horizontal organization" - what does that mean in English?
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Game Workers Unite
81–90 of 199 posts
Re: Game Workers Unite
#82Why only game workers? Why not software workers/codewriters in general? I'd prefer something closer to SAG than the auto workers union personally.
I would never join or pay into such a union. I'm so happy to be able to make employment agreements freely, and if anyone threatens that, I will criticize them. If developers in the game industry want to take crappy employment agreements because they're infatuated with video games, that is their right. The skillset is portable, and the instability of standard game dev positions is well known, game developers in general have ample opportunity to choose other software work, but opt for game dev work because they like the idea of it.
I think it's unwise (from my armchair) of game companies to build their business on a cycle of crushing the dreams of young people, but it's voluntary, obvious, and well-warned.
Re: Game Workers Unite
#83I see a lot of people arguing about how unions protect workers, and in some cases that is true, but in my experience many have been corrupted. You only have to look at the coal workers, steel workers, and several other unions, that's leadership has been corrupted, and serve their own interest at the expense of everyone else. Additionally, things like agency fees, where even if you work somewhere with a Union, and you…
Yeah but the United Mine Workers Association (a coal union) got us the eight hour workday - before that, they just exploited the shit out of you. "Back when the government first tracked workers' hours in 1890, full-time manufacturing employees worked a backbreaking 100 hours each week. Years of pressure from laborer organizers, along with changes from companies like Ford Motor, reformed working conditions in the U.S.…
People are forgetting how life was when the capitalists got their way without any legal worker protections. Read about the conditions in british coal mines or in carnegie's steel mills. We should not go back to these days and unions are an important part of preventing that.
Re: Game Workers Unite
#84I see no problem with game workers unionizing, but when I want to release my indie game on itch or steam and I am stopped because I have to pay dues to the union, we'll have a very real and unfriendly discussion.
Film unions don't regulate indie films — hopefully this will be much the same.
hmm, I would have assumed the writer's guild rules would still apply even if you're doing an indie film.
Re: Game Workers Unite
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
All unions have concrete ways to make people's lives better. That's why they exist. This website glosses over them but they are pretty basic. Things like open salaries, control over agile process, overtime for on-call, overtime pay for crunch times, more control over hiring / firing.
Why would I want my salary to be the same as everyone else? If I am better than the next person and I am a better negotiator, why should my salary be identical to the lazy fuck that has the same number of years of experience? The mistake of these Marxist organizations is that they assume that workers are interchangeable parts. Maybe on an assembly line that is true, but engineering software or hardware or designing t…
Hypothetical: if you could increase your salary from what it is, but your coworker who makes less would also get that new higher salary, would you go for it? Even if you think you're better than they are?
To put some numbers on it: you're at $100k and Alice is at $90k (because she's a woman?). After unionizing, you'd get $110 and Alice would get $110.
Would you do it?
Re: Game Workers Unite
#86I am so glad to see this happening! There are a lot of reasons why game workers need to organize, but it doesn't have to stop there. Tech workers in general can make the lives of their teammates a lot better by banding together. We can also fight for the rights of others, why couldn't Amazon employees fight for the rights of Amazon's warehouse workers? Also, things like discrimination and abuse are combated by organi…
> No individual worker is going to negotiate with a company on equal footing.
Equal footing how? If the "worker" and the company could be on truly equal footing, then there would be no point in having companies at all. The whole point of a company is for the company to have more resources than any one person is entitled to or capable of retaining. If you mean equal footing relative other employees, why would they have equal footing if every employee is inherently different from the next?
Re: Game Workers Unite
#87I see no problem with game workers unionizing, but when I want to release my indie game on itch or steam and I am stopped because I have to pay dues to the union, we'll have a very real and unfriendly discussion.
Nobody can force you to join a union. The scenario you describe only applies if Itch or Steam agree to only take game submissions from union members, which would just prompt non-union alternatives.
Re: Game Workers Unite
#88I have read the whole website and failed to see one concrete example of action that the union could take to make game-industry employees' life better Game Workers Unite is a broad-reaching organization that seeks to connect pro-union activists, exploited workers, and allies across borders and across ideologies in the name of building a unionized game industry. Even compatible with the libertarian ideology :p ?
Libertarians should, in principle, be okay with people exercising their personal freedom to form a union.
Forming a union is no big deal, but if others don't have the right not to negotiate with or support that union by virtue of the type of work they're doing, it may as well be a government restriction on your right to pursue employment.
Re: Game Workers Unite
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would I want my salary to be the same as everyone else? If I am better than the next person and I am a better negotiator, why should my salary be identical to the lazy fuck that has the same number of years of experience? The mistake of these Marxist organizations is that they assume that workers are interchangeable parts. Maybe on an assembly line that is true, but engineering software or hardware or designing t…
Hypothetical: if you could increase your salary from what it is, but your coworker who makes less would also get that new higher salary, would you go for it? Even if you think you're better than they are? To put some numbers on it: you're at $100k and Alice is at $90k (because she's a woman?). After unionizing, you'd get $110 and Alice would get $110. Would you do it?
> Alice is at $90k (because she's a woman?)
Any evidence of this in practice?
> After unionizing, you'd get $110 and Alice would get $110.
Or maybe you'd both get $100, or maybe one of you would never be hired. You've got your hypotheticals, I've got mine.
Re: Game Workers Unite
#90A union will solve nothing other than leeching off some money from the workers (yay!). If you want to solve the problem you have to educate the credible little children who think working in gamedev is a privilege and are willing to work for free because "games!". Currently and for decades there has been an infinite supply of these, hence all the junior and mid roles pay less than half than any other industry.
To claim that unions "will solve nothing" is to deny the long and well-documented history of their success.
The end of collective bargaining is the end of the free market.
It's very easy to understand the negative realities of unions, but nobody starts a union for fun. It's risky business. Industries are classically given plenty of chances to adjust. Sometimes they even do. That's why it's called bargaining. Small businesses, products, brands, they all work on this same principle. Go complain to Consumer Reports!
You have explained why the game industry is able to take advantage of people, but nobody asked. It's well obvious. The question is whether you find the behavior acceptable. I cannot relate to punishing people for wanting a career in an $18.4 Billion industry. Maybe it is a privilege. Some would call it the American dream. Many colleges promote these degrees. Maybe that is where you should direct your anger, because the result of corporations exploiting labor is no mystery to history.