The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees • Hacker News Board

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#381

Post by grecy » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

retube wrote: post #343

grecy wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree wholeheartedly, and just so you know, once you get out of North America (the USA especially), it's often not like this. There are millions and millions of people out there in their 20s and 30s who work part time and do whatever they want with the other time, because that provides "enough" money for the life they want to live. I personally work roughly 50% time. I work a few years, then a quit and do whatever…

> They don't have a lot of money, but they have "enough" for the life they want and they spend a lot of time surfing Right. and what happens when they get old? how will they ever be able to retire?

They're putting away money for retirement.

Because they are currently living on not a whole lot, they are not going to need a whole lot in retirement either, because they will be accustomed to having less money.

Before you get all uppity about healthcare costs, just remember there is only one developed country on the entire planet where anyone would even think about that. They don't live in it.

As a reference point, I was reading a very detailed write-up of what a single person would spend in retirement per year, and it was more than double what I was living on working full-time as a Software Engineer.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#382

Post by Bartweiss » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

terryf wrote: post #319

JDiculous wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually false. The average American worker today works more hours per year than a 14th century peasant ( http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/08/29/why-a-medie... ). Hunter-gatherers only worked 2-3 hours per day. Despite technology allowing us to work less, we work more. Yes we should be grateful of technological advancement, but too many people are unnecessarily depressed and suicidal, and it doesn't…

I work my ass off. Lot more hours than would be technically necessary. High tech as well. I've also gone hiking in the mountains in California. Been on the beach in Italy. Walked around in the center of Munich. As a 14th century peasant I probably never even knew those places existed. I can also get pain medication if I have a headache. I can go to a doctor to fix my broken bones if I happen to get one. Oh, and the l…

One thing that's always suspicious about those "peasants had more time off" claims is that they imply medieval peasants had a bright line between work and recreation in a way that's just not true. Talking about the day with your family while you spin wool or sharpen a sickle is... work? play? all of the above?

For all that we have issues with a culture where people check work emails at home and are otherwise on-call, we've moved remarkably far from a culture where work was truly pervasive, where it formed the backdrop of everything else.

All of which is to say that both the quality, as you point out, and the purity of our recreation have improved quite a lot. Counting up a nebulous "time off" value seems to seriously misunderstand the changes in how we live.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#383

Post by pnutjam » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

terryf wrote: post #354

andrepd wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is a false dichotomy. Your working long hours in an office in no way helps or correlates with the ability of being able to travel, or to have headache medication.

Technically, you're probably right. Realistically I also like to live in a nice house, do have to (well, by choice obviously) take care of three kids and like to enjoy a luxury here and there. That takes money. I have tried multiple times to build my own companies, but sadly haven't been successful in that. So that's for the travel argument. As for the headache medication argument - I have that only because thousands…

Alot of people are workaholics, maybe because they feel aimless and need some outside driving force. I work, but I also make alot of time for family and other activities. I turn down jobs that ask for more then 40 hours a week and I've quit jobs that had an unhealthy obsession with having your ass in a chair 8 hours a day at exactly 8am.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#384

Post by pnutjam » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

terryf wrote: post #366

deadbunny wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because we have it good now we shouldn't seek to do things better?

I never argued that. I do believe that things are much better now than in the 14th century though. That's the comment I replied to. We should always strive to improve, but the article had the tone of "oh look how bad everything is" while implying that it hasn't always been like that. Things are far better now in almost any quantifiable measure than they have ever been in human history. Not enough people talk about th…

What if you quantify against Europe? The article is pointing out the unhealthy work obsession and work environment of the US. How many people do you know with vacation the won't take for fear of losing their job? That is not the norm in every country.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#385

Post by mrguyorama » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 3:53 PM UTC

ghettoimp wrote: post #110

retrac98 wrote: post #27

I’ve always found it very effective to use a “just say no” policy to out of hours work or more work than I can handle comfortably. People stop taking advantage when you stop letting them. More than you might expect actually respect it. I don’t think this way of working has hurt my career progression, and it’s certainly done wonders for my mental health.

Yep yep yep. I've had to fight numerous battles with my boss, along the lines of, "I don't care who scheduled the meeting, I already have plans tonight, and it's not reasonable to make me change them with no notice." This mentality has turned out to be (a) well worth it for my marriage, and (b) not actually a big deal in the scheme of things.

>" I already have plans tonight, and it's not reasonable to make me change them with no notice."

I find the fact that you even feel you need to include this part disgusting. I'm paid for 40 hours a week. You are not required to pay me overtime. You do not get a second extra of my time

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#386

Post by retube » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 3:59 PM UTC

dwater wrote: post #360

retube wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hunter-gatherers only worked 2-3 hours per day. They were also dead by 35.

That is misleading. Infant mortality was high, but for those who lived past childhood average lifespan was not that far off from what it is today. https://condensedscience.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/life-expec...

OK. they only had a 50% chance of making it to 5 years old. That's much better!

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#387

Post by atarkmani » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

stagbeetle wrote: post #362

retube wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't have a lot of money, but they have "enough" for the life they want and they spend a lot of time surfing Right. and what happens when they get old? how will they ever be able to retire?

Are you asking this as someone who's already in retirement, enjoying what's left of the simple pleasures or are you still working like the typical American and planning for retirement? It's sort of like most people turning their noses when someone (used to; now it's different) said they were starting a business: "Oh, well what happens when you fail and can't get a job? How will you ever be able to live then?" People…

I do believe we need to advance the idea of 'Basic Income' it will give people the freedom to de-attach themselves from toxic working environment or pause for a bit. I did that few times now. I never regret it. Giving people some social safety net to look after their family and make decisions about their well-being and happiness is a must. without making it easier for those who may abuse the system.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#388

Post by pascalxus » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 4:28 PM UTC

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #279

pascalxus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the right financial planning, it can be done. But, if you've already taken on 20K in student loans and 5 year cell phone contract, it's gonna be much much harder. That's why we need to start teach financial education really early: like K-12. Food and water can be quite cheap: the grocery stores are filled with healthy foods you can get for less than 1$ per lb in most of the US: corn, whole wheat flour, bananas,…

Everything you say proves your privilege. If you work a minimum wage job there is no way you can put aside 20k in a few years. Taking on student loans is necessary for many to even get a degree to have a chance at a decent job. And poor people usually are excellent at managing resources, yet you go "poor people just lack character", while what they lack is money, which is stolen by a small group of people at the top…

the point is, people spend far more than they have to on college education. The cheapest 4 year degrees are much cheaper than the average ones. And, if you're not shopping around based on price (most people seem not to be), most likely your doing yourself a disservice. Of course, it also depends on your career plans.

I myself, went to the cheapest college in my area, even though I could have gotten into a far more expensive/prestigious college. I chose not to because I knew it would put me a great economic disadvantage to have so much debt. Software engineering careers and many other careers don't always benefit from more prestigious schools.

If more people shopped for colleges based on price then maybe universities will start competing on price and we can finally see them planning ways to make college cheaper instead of adding yet another good for nothing expensive wing to the campus.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#389

Post by toasterlovin » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

JDiculous wrote: post #227

DeusExMachina wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this idea bizarre. It's like humans enjoyed their time for millennia and only now we have to work. For all human history, the conditions of people were dire. Today people might be stuck in an office in their "best year", but people in the past had to toil all day to barely scrape by and didn't even have that many years to live. It's only now that we live these comfortable lives with houses, heating, electricit…

This is actually false. The average American worker today works more hours per year than a 14th century peasant ( http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/08/29/why-a-medie... ). Hunter-gatherers only worked 2-3 hours per day. Despite technology allowing us to work less, we work more. Yes we should be grateful of technological advancement, but too many people are unnecessarily depressed and suicidal, and it doesn't…

Just an FYI: hunter gatherers haven't been a significant portion of the overall human population for thousands of years. Like it or not, humans uncovered an ecological niche in the form of agriculture that was vastly more successful than hunting and foraging. The cost of occupying this new ecological niche is that we started working all day, every day.

And it's nice that 14th century peasants didn't work much, but as the article you linked to says, that happened to be a time of particularly high wages because the Black Death greatly reduced the supply of labor. In other words, it was not at all representative of the general lifestyle of a peasant.

Re: The health care toll today’s work culture exacts on employees

#390

Post by toasterlovin » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

dwater wrote: post #360

retube wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hunter-gatherers only worked 2-3 hours per day. They were also dead by 35.

That is misleading. Infant mortality was high, but for those who lived past childhood average lifespan was not that far off from what it is today. https://condensedscience.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/life-expec...

What you said is also misleading. Hunter gatherers could live as long as people live today, but they frequently did not. Murder rates among hunter gatherers are insanely high. And there are all manner of disease that are no longer fatal, but once were. Heck, I've had several infections in my own life that would have been catastrophic 100 years ago.