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Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

craigslist.org

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Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#221

Post by martimarkov »

IanCal wrote: post #188
martimarkov wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not take into account the increased number of ppl. As an extreme example to illustrate my point if it has been 2 million ppl living in Germany in 2001 and 10 million in 2002 in the age range they are looking at then it’s actually better. It should be based on % rather than just numbers. Also it doesn’t look at the trend. If it the trend was to increase by 30% but dropped afterwards to 20% then again it has…

Those numbers are all available. Germany's population is very stable and 2001-2003 changed by 0.2% based on world bank figures. > If it the trend was to increase by 30% but dropped afterwards to 20% then again it has worked in some way. Only of you have some real reason to expect the number to increase by 30%. Just looking at a trend is not enough.

Firstly, The entire paper is guesswork. There are no official numbers to support the fact that legalising prostitution increases the victim count. I just finished reading it and they even in the beginning state that they don’t have the data.

Secondly, I was just making a point that in these kinds of researches a % value is IMO a better measurement

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#222

Post by pjc50 »

syshum wrote: post #215
golergka wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that you can have consensual sexual relationships outside of marriage, right? They don't even have to be exclusive. Seriously, dude, if you're a "hungry man", open Tinder or just go to a local hook up bar. Hooking up for a one night stand is trivial.

.

> prevailing concept that "consent" can be revoked AFTER you have consented

No, it can't; but what does happen is people taking "she didn't complain" as evidence of consent rather than evidence of coercion into not complaining.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#223

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #222
syshum wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.

> prevailing concept that "consent" can be revoked AFTER you have consented No, it can't; but what does happen is people taking "she didn't complain" as evidence of consent rather than evidence of coercion into not complaining.

[deleted]

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#224

Post by kofejnik »

golergka wrote: post #206
tajen wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key aspects of prostitution is it provides an alternative outcome to marriage. Why else would a man step into marriage where 100% rules have been thoughtfully designed against him (except love, for as long as it lasts), if he could last a few years longer by using prostitution... Heck, even sex dolls are being forbidden, even though they cause absolutely no harm to humans (a sex doll house is being closed…

You know that you can have consensual sexual relationships outside of marriage, right? They don't even have to be exclusive. Seriously, dude, if you're a "hungry man", open Tinder or just go to a local hook up bar. Hooking up for a one night stand is trivial.

> Hooking up for a one night stand is trivial.

Glad you've been lucky, but don't make assumptions from data set of 1. It's trivial only for the most attractive and charismatic males. OkCupid has published some nice research on it

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#225

Post by kofejnik »

AFNobody wrote: post #88
tptacek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose if you work directly with people on the front lines of that problem, Craigslist personals might seem pretty trivial in comparison.

To me, the odd thing is they focus on that instead of legalization and helping people report abuses. Legalization is far from perfect but abuse in Nevada brothels is much lower than as street walkers. It seems it's more a puritanical belief system than a genuine desire to render aid.

or maybe they, like any other political group, seek power to regulate and enforce

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#226

Post by ihsw2 »

quotemstr wrote: post #68

I am fucking sick and fucking tired of people interfering with the free choice of individuals in any effort to "fix" society and "help" people. Lawmakers and advocates, have some epistemic humility and acknowledge that your own perspective may be mistaken. Not everything is oppression. Not every activity is injustice. Sometimes, people just fucking disagree.

How do you reconcile this with the #metoo feminist supremacist movement, the transgender-rights progressive supremacist movement, the illegal-immigrant-rights movement -- all of it is unabashed moralizing, extolling the claims of a utopian future while decrying opponents as irredeemable sinners?

They are puritans of another flavor, intending to "purify" America (and the world) of "cultural oppression."

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#227

Post by kofejnik »

SeeDave wrote: post #117
DannyBee wrote: post #44

This is not surprising, but sad. Years ago, i was dragged (i was the only engineer in the local office) into a whitehouse (or maybe it was state department, i can't remember) sponsored working group on online sex trafficking. The non-profits dedicated to fighting this, while seemingly well-intentioned, were completely and totally unwilling to see any other perspective or try to find shared ground. It was scorched ear…

In defense of the "scorched earth approach or nothing" folks: from my perspective... it's a completely and totally human response to faceless, blameless, unapproachable (from their perspective) perpetrators and facilitators of systematic abuse and exploitation of innocent and vulnerable people. If you've ever felt frustrated at an IVR system for routine tasks such as banking, restaurant reservations, canceling a gym…

> it's a completely and totally human response to faceless, blameless, unapproachable (from their perspective) perpetrators and facilitators of systematic abuse and exploitation of innocent and vulnerable people.

You mean, like millions of illegal immigrants who are working in farming, construction, fast food, and many other industries? How do you feel about scorched earth approach to those?

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#228

Post by girvo »

secabeen wrote: post #138
thrden wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not saying they should have banned one, and not the other it would have been entirely possible to say ban an opioids sales subreddit, but not the bb-gun subreddit. It would have been trivial to simply make the rule such that only illicit sales/transactions were banned. They decided to create these rules and if the rules make reddit look foolish than maybe thats because they are.

Take the challenge from their side. If they leave the bb-gun sub active, how do they ensure that people aren't going to the bb-gun sub, and trading real guns there? They'd have to have humans police each post, or develop ML algorithms that can reliably identify when someone is hiding a real gun sale as a bb-gun sale. The former doesn't scale reliably (sure, the mods of the bb-gun sub could probably do it voluntarily,…

But what stops people from trading real guns on ANY subreddit?

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#229

Post by midgetjones »

delbel wrote: post #130
thrden wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately we've had a very poor week for internet freedom. However much of it has been the result of corporate overreach. This week: Reddit bans Cigar, beer and Alchohol trading subreddits, toy bb gun sales, and gun related coupon clippers Youtube (and facebook?) banned Channels featuring guns they deem inappropriate. Including videos regarding proper safety and maintenance. It has become clear to be that the int…

I screwed up and accidentally chambered two 12ga shells in my Remington 870, it was a potential dangerous accident but found video to help me safely un-f the situation. Also I found a "bug" that allowed me to shoot, under a strange condition, my 9mm when the safety was on. Found out what not to do on youtube to avoid that situation. Also couldn't figure out what this knob was on my 10/22, turns out its a critical fea…

These problems can also be avoided by not owning guns.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#230

Post by komali2 »

kofejnik wrote: post #224
golergka wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that you can have consensual sexual relationships outside of marriage, right? They don't even have to be exclusive. Seriously, dude, if you're a "hungry man", open Tinder or just go to a local hook up bar. Hooking up for a one night stand is trivial.

> Hooking up for a one night stand is trivial. Glad you've been lucky, but don't make assumptions from data set of 1. It's trivial only for the most attractive and charismatic males. OkCupid has published some nice research on it

Luckily charisma can be learned and overcome all but the most outlying unattractive.

But yea prostitution is the world's oldest profession for a reason - sometimes people just want a transactional sexual encounter. For money, one can have no "equal parts" requirement - no need to reciprocate. It's not for everyone (or for me) but I can understand the attraction.

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