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Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

theguardian.com

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Re: Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

#21

Post by justinator »

sverige wrote: post #2

I don't know of any studies to prove it is true, but I suspect that the US Midwest (in particular) has had a similar decline. Anecdotally I can say that there are certainly far fewer insects here than there were in the 60s and 70s when I was growing up, and also that there seem to be far fewer birds. I wonder if we'll stop dumping this stuff into the environment before it's too late. It would require a whole new way…

Well, the trend has been going on for a while. May we not forget the passenger pigeon?

Naturalists in the 1800's would wipe out entire species getting specimens. I don't know if humans are all that great at tending the Earth's biomass.

Re: Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

#22

Post by almostApatriot1 »

Interestingly not mentioned is that many migratory birds that go through Europe pass through a lot of hostile territory. Covered several years ago by none other than Jonathan Franzen:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/07/songbird-migration...

Maybe not a significant reason for the decline; I don't know, but obviously you can't blame the conditions in France alone for a decline in 70% of migratory songbirds. France could not be the issue at all.

Re: Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

#23

Post by DoctorBit »

"Despite a government plan to cut pesticide use in half by 2020, sales in France have climbed steadily, reaching more than 75,000 tonnes of active ingredient in 2014, according to European Union figures."

That's an incredibly large amount of pesticides - over two pounds of active ingredient per French citizen per year.

Re: Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

#25

Post by chx »

uptown wrote: post #3
sverige wrote: post #2

I don't know of any studies to prove it is true, but I suspect that the US Midwest (in particular) has had a similar decline. Anecdotally I can say that there are certainly far fewer insects here than there were in the 60s and 70s when I was growing up, and also that there seem to be far fewer birds. I wonder if we'll stop dumping this stuff into the environment before it's too late. It would require a whole new way…

There's an article related to this titled "Where have all the insects gone?" which discusses the "windshield phenomenon" where far fewer bugs are winding up on the windshields of vehicles. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/where-have-all-insec...

We can't even convince everyone to do something about climate change. What are the chances we can get people worried about beetles?

Re: Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

#26

Post by question_that »

I'm fine with fewer chemicals, more bugs and higher prices but that's because I could still afford to eat. I'd venture to say if half of Earth's population was going to starve in order to keep the planet viable everyone reading this would be in the 50% which survives. What's the solution?

Re: Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

#27

Post by justboxing »

chx wrote: post #25
uptown wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an article related to this titled "Where have all the insects gone?" which discusses the "windshield phenomenon" where far fewer bugs are winding up on the windshields of vehicles. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/where-have-all-insec...

We can't even convince everyone to do something about climate change. What are the chances we can get people worried about beetles?

This exactly. In fact we've ( the US) gone the other way, electing a President and Party that openly denies climate change.

Re: Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

#28

Post by sologoub »

almostApatriot1 wrote: post #22

Interestingly not mentioned is that many migratory birds that go through Europe pass through a lot of hostile territory. Covered several years ago by none other than Jonathan Franzen: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/07/songbird-migration... Maybe not a significant reason for the decline; I don't know, but obviously you can't blame the conditions in France alone for a decline in 70% of migratory songbirds. Fran…

Speechless after reading this...

EDIT: it’s fascinating that HN has people that don’t get that disbalancing a fairly balanced system (ecosystem) will lead to severe and, usually, hard to predict results. Birds and insects make up a vital part of our shared ecosystem. By breaking the balance in it further and further we are indangering ourself a further and further. The equation will balance itself, but that balance may or may not include us (humans) in the long run. I’d prefer we make significant concessions now, rather facing such dire consequences later.

Re: Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

#29

Post by TaylorAlexander »

aurizon wrote: post #19
AtomicOrbital wrote: post #16

Possible contributing cause is a class of insecticides called neonicotinoids. These are not sprayed, but rather coated on seeds, arguably even more alarming. Seed coating with a neonicotinoid insecticide negatively affects wild bees https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v521/n7550/full/nature14420.html

With on the seed, there is a lot less neonicotinoid than in an area spray. I tend to prefer minimalist use versus area use.

I mean, it’s great that there’s not a whole lot of this stuff being used, but if even small amounts are causing problems then it’s not that much of a saving grace.

Re: Bird populations in French countryside have fallen by a third in fifteen years

#30

Post by sologoub »

sologoub wrote: post #28
almostApatriot1 wrote: post #22

Interestingly not mentioned is that many migratory birds that go through Europe pass through a lot of hostile territory. Covered several years ago by none other than Jonathan Franzen: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/07/songbird-migration... Maybe not a significant reason for the decline; I don't know, but obviously you can't blame the conditions in France alone for a decline in 70% of migratory songbirds. Fran…

Speechless after reading this... EDIT: it’s fascinating that HN has people that don’t get that disbalancing a fairly balanced system (ecosystem) will lead to severe and, usually, hard to predict results. Birds and insects make up a vital part of our shared ecosystem. By breaking the balance in it further and further we are indangering ourself a further and further. The equation will balance itself, but that balance m…

Interesting - being appalled by what is being done to our shared ecosystem seems to be something that warrants a downvote.

Perhaps before voting, one should read the NatGeo article to the end.

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