Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire • Hacker News Board

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#41

Post by ctrl-j » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:39 PM UTC

sverige wrote: post #11

rectang wrote: post #5

It's fascinating that widespread outrage over privacy finally materializes when data is used for hated political causes. Commerce, law enforcement not so much... but "Trump" or "Obama" and suddenly people care.

The Facebook outrage is interesting since it is tied to Trump. When Obama did it, no one cared. For example, there's a video of Jim Messina, Obama's 2012 campaign manager, talking about how they obtained the entire Facebook social graph and used it to target voters. [1] I don't remember any "delete Facebook" campaigns back then. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZmcyHpG31A

Maybe I missed the part in that video where he says they pulled private user data? If Trump generated his own social graph, I don't think there would be outrage.. instead they've got something worse than a breach on their hands.

It's apples and oranges.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#42

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:39 PM UTC

fredliu wrote: post #18

Mayzie wrote: post #14

Wow, is it just me, or is Bloomberg really on the attack on Facebook? Every article on Facebook from them submitted here and other places like Reddit have always been quite negative, especially the headline.

Definitely not just you. And to me, it's not just Bloomberg, looks like most of traditional media companies are out this time.

[deleted]

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#43

Post by cryptoz » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:40 PM UTC

jayess wrote: post #33

cryptoz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When Obama did it, no one cared When Obama did what? Nothing here even remotely resembles the methods used by Obama's campaign. "No, Obama Didn’t Employ the Same Strategies as Cambridge Analytica" https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/03/21/no-obama-didnt-empl... HN is so full of already-debunked right-wing talking points, it has to stop. This place is full of as much disinformation as anywhere else. Everything in you…

Your response only talks about 2008. The 2012 campaign admitted that it sucked data out of facebook. 'The entire social network' in the united states. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1129&v=LGiiQUMaS... "They came to office in the days following election recruiting & were very candid that they allowed us to do things they wouldn’t have allowed someone else to do because they were on our side." https://twi…

So Obama's campaign violated the Facebook terms of service and illegally used the data they obtained, combined with funds illegally collected from a hostile foreign power, and used the user data to spread disinformation and lies about US politics?

Is that what you're saying? Because otherwise, the two cases are completely different.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#44

Post by ravitation » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:41 PM UTC

sverige wrote: post #11

rectang wrote: post #5

It's fascinating that widespread outrage over privacy finally materializes when data is used for hated political causes. Commerce, law enforcement not so much... but "Trump" or "Obama" and suddenly people care.

The Facebook outrage is interesting since it is tied to Trump. When Obama did it, no one cared. For example, there's a video of Jim Messina, Obama's 2012 campaign manager, talking about how they obtained the entire Facebook social graph and used it to target voters. [1] I don't remember any "delete Facebook" campaigns back then. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZmcyHpG31A

"Using data" (said at least a hundred times in that video) or even using Facebook data is not what the outrage is about. I missed the part in the video about third-party developers trawling user (and non-user) data and then giving (selling) it to other third-parties. And the part where the Obama campaign was one of those third-parties...

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#45

Post by colordrops » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:42 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #5

It's fascinating that widespread outrage over privacy finally materializes when data is used for hated political causes. Commerce, law enforcement not so much... but "Trump" or "Obama" and suddenly people care.

Commerce and law enforcement don't have opposing forces with huge political propaganda/PR machines behind them. Trump is opposed by the Democrats, and Obama is opposed by the Republicans. Both parties are public sentiment manipulation machines.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#46

Post by xienze » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:42 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #38

sverige wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Facebook outrage is interesting since it is tied to Trump. When Obama did it, no one cared. For example, there's a video of Jim Messina, Obama's 2012 campaign manager, talking about how they obtained the entire Facebook social graph and used it to target voters. [1] I don't remember any "delete Facebook" campaigns back then. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZmcyHpG31A

I'm struggling to understand why people keep bringing up the Obama comparison. At the start of the 2016 elections everyone , Sanders, Clinton, Jeb!, Trump were doing what Obama did in 2012. The outrage isn't soley in the fact that the CA campaign used FB data. 1. CA obtained the data illicitly and tried to cover up the fact they had used it, and downplay how many users they had reached. 2. CA used the data to intenti…

https://ijr.com/ijr-red/2018/03/1077083-ex-obama-campaign-di...

You have a former Obama campaign staffer saying that what they did raised alarms with Facebook. Hence, what they were doing was not OK by someone’s standard. Plus, the intent of the app is irrelevant. By using it you authorized it to get information on everyone in your friend list, something they’ve since disabled for, wait for it, privacy reasons because it’s not like the people on your friend list were ever asked for _their_ consent during the harvesting process.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#47

Post by sunir » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:42 PM UTC

dictum wrote: post #7

(Warning: controversial and conspiratorial opinion; fake news if you will) I used to think Zuckerberg's pandering to the Chinese government was a power grab, an expansionist desire. Now I think it's a hedge strategy. He knows he's not very welcome in some of the circles he's been in for the past few years.

Moderators: please remove

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#48

Post by frostburg » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:42 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #38

sverige wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Facebook outrage is interesting since it is tied to Trump. When Obama did it, no one cared. For example, there's a video of Jim Messina, Obama's 2012 campaign manager, talking about how they obtained the entire Facebook social graph and used it to target voters. [1] I don't remember any "delete Facebook" campaigns back then. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZmcyHpG31A

I'm struggling to understand why people keep bringing up the Obama comparison. At the start of the 2016 elections everyone , Sanders, Clinton, Jeb!, Trump were doing what Obama did in 2012. The outrage isn't soley in the fact that the CA campaign used FB data. 1. CA obtained the data illicitly and tried to cover up the fact they had used it, and downplay how many users they had reached. 2. CA used the data to intenti…

It's a damage control talking point, see Wikileaks (which at this point is basically a Russian propaganda mouthpiece) immediately suggesting it.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#49

Post by nickysielicki » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:42 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #27

sverige wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Facebook outrage is interesting since it is tied to Trump. When Obama did it, no one cared. For example, there's a video of Jim Messina, Obama's 2012 campaign manager, talking about how they obtained the entire Facebook social graph and used it to target voters. [1] I don't remember any "delete Facebook" campaigns back then. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZmcyHpG31A

Please stop spreading the "Obama did it too!" canard, they didn't exceed authorization.

See here for details of how CA's data was aggregated: https://theintercept.com/2017/03/30/facebook-failed-to-prote...

You can find that this survey was listed on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/HITsWorthTurkingFor/comments/27nnaa...

Half the reddit commenters claim to have gave them fraudulent information, and they paid people $2 for completing the survey.

How is that fundamentally different from this:

https://twitter.com/mbsimon/status/975231597183229953

> I ran the Obama 2008 data-driven microtargeting team. How dare you! We didn’t steal private Facebook profile data from voters under false pretenses. OFA voluntarily solicited opinions of hundreds of thousands of voters. We didn’t commit theft to do our groundbreaking work.

So a bunch of MT users voluntarily gave their information over, for $2, knowing that it would be used for research purposes, and clearly (at least on reddit) skeptical of giving over their information. But that's theft and that's wrong.

A bunch of Obama for President enthusiasts voluntarily give their information to his campaign, knowing that it would be used for research purposes. That's categorically different, for some reason.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#50

Post by allthenews » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 11:42 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #27

sverige wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Facebook outrage is interesting since it is tied to Trump. When Obama did it, no one cared. For example, there's a video of Jim Messina, Obama's 2012 campaign manager, talking about how they obtained the entire Facebook social graph and used it to target voters. [1] I don't remember any "delete Facebook" campaigns back then. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZmcyHpG31A

Please stop spreading the "Obama did it too!" canard, they didn't exceed authorization.

That doesn't justify the fact that data was harvested for what amounts to targeted propaganda.

And this isn't some kind of whataboutism. Attention needs to be drawn to these abuses of private data, regardless of where they occur or whether they are technically legal.