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DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

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Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If a fully featured app or service is free, then you are the product. Depends on the business model. Wikipedia, for example, is a non-profit. You can also theoretically have a public benefit corporation that is structured to protect data privacy, but I don't know of any.

Mozilla?

I think Mozilla has some weird structure where it's a non-profit foundation that happens fully own a for-profit corporation. I'm not an expert on the topic, though, so maybe that counts? Probably depends on the state where it's incorporated.

The only big PBCs I've ever heard of were hospitals and private colleges. But you are right that the way Mozilla is set up, it is focused more on pushing the technology and mission of the foundation forward rather than on delivering share price increases or dividends to shareholders.

Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#142
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People with power and wealth could still be toppled when you exposed them to the truth. How in the fuck does that even come close to happening today? I have doubts that this happened regularly in the past, usually wealthy/powerful were allowed to be toppled by their enemies. I don't know the details of how Weinstein got toppled after so many years of being protected, but my gut says that the people who were protect…

I think the age of ai and robots will change this. Revolutions happened when the army out police swapped sides, but computers don't really do that.

True, but AI/robots are also complex systems which depend on additional complex systems and have many internal fragilities and external attack surfaces that can be exploited.

The class that controls the robots/AI become the de facto enforcement class, a la the army/police/praetorian guard.

If you say that the AI won't be controlled, then I don't have anything left to say on this subject because it's a rabbit hole I've been down too often lately.

Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#143

For the life of me I can't remember where I originally read this quote, but it forever changed my perspective of FB. Paraphrased: "Facebook is 3 things: the wall, the messaging, and an automatically updating rolodex." Many apps fill 1 and/or 2, but nothing satisfies #3. There is no alternative. For better or for worse: I want to stay in touch with people I've met in the oddest places. In the middle of bumsquash Urugu…

For #3 why not just email? There may be some marginal convenience features to FB, but email has served that purpose reliably since it was invented.

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Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#144
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People with power and wealth could still be toppled when you exposed them to the truth. How in the fuck does that even come close to happening today? I have doubts that this happened regularly in the past, usually wealthy/powerful were allowed to be toppled by their enemies. I don't know the details of how Weinstein got toppled after so many years of being protected, but my gut says that the people who were protect…

I feel that Jared Diamond's book Collapse belongs on your list of references https://archive.org/stream/CollapseHowSocietiesChooseToFailO...

Amazingly, I haven't yet read any of Diamond's work, though I think I have this on my bookcase.

I know that Tainter has criticized him some for cherry picking in order to support his presuppositions, specifically regarding his Easter Island ideas. I think he talks about it a little bit on this Omega Tau podcast:

http://omegataupodcast.net/184-societal-complexity-and-colla...

It's on my personal list still though, get around to it eventually.

Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#145
post #59

Mastodon is cool technology. The problem is Facebook fills a hole that Mastodon does not. Facebook connects people in real life. Folks from varying distances are able to keep up with their friends and family. There's a built-in desire to monitor their conversations. They're rewarded with "reactions". Facebook provides value for a very large group of people. A relatively small group of people saw a problem with Facebo…

"Folks from varying distances are able to keep up with their friends and family" - this is literally the only reason I have a Facebook account.

Most of my family is not very tech-savvy so asking them to use something like Mastodon to see family pictures or whatever is pointless. Even if they did try to use it, all of their other friends and family are on Facebook so asking them to use Mastodon just for me adds one more thing/app to their list that they are probably going to use maybe twice and then just stop.

I really wish there was a good alternative to this but I haven't been able to find anything (yet) :(.

Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#146

Sounds good in principle but how would mastodon scale to billions of accounts and maintain data centers around the world?

The main Mastodon instance probably can't do that. But then I think you're missing the point of a distributed social network.

Makes sense. But how can a user validate a mastodon instance is not malicious?

Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#147
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People with power and wealth could still be toppled when you exposed them to the truth. How in the fuck does that even come close to happening today? I have doubts that this happened regularly in the past, usually wealthy/powerful were allowed to be toppled by their enemies. I don't know the details of how Weinstein got toppled after so many years of being protected, but my gut says that the people who were protect…

I appreicate your thorough response and giving me all these resources to dig through. I think that in the past you had to be a very intelligent machiavellian-type dude to stay in power and it was a constant struggle. You probably had to be a very good at reading people and understanding their psyche. But there are only so many such guys and they can only manipulate so many people. I think technology has given people…

Yeah, technology is basically a lever that increasingly grants larger power multipliers to those with access.

When high leverage technology is more accessible then it becomes a leveler for the playing field. When it's available only to those who already hold power, then it tips things drastically in whatever direction they wish and typically makes things drastically more uneven (though the Gates Foundation and others do apply their power/tech toward leveling sometimes).

I think this is one of the effects that makes our current society more fragile... bad actors (big and small) can create enormous impacts with minimal resource, and because of the nature of the Second Law, it's far easier to destroy than it is to create.

Just look at this data breach, it took enormous effort (relatively) to create a platform to identify, gather and organize all this personal data, yet look at how easily it slipped into the hands of bad actors. Bad press for FB, less trust in social networks, and who else has access to this data set? A small team who also managed to hack something like 23AndMe or another useful dataset with additional information will be able to create an even more powerful dataset with a laptop and some python scripts. Combine that with more advanced CRISPR technology and I don't even know could be possible, it's the stuff of sci-fi thrillers though.

You're absolutely right to be concerned, but I don't think this can be reigned in. The UN isn't in any position to regulate the global network, and the modern economy/society can't afford to create walled national networks, plus policing them would just be another layer of complexity.

I think the best we can do is get ready. All of this complexity will become a drag on economic growth (which requires constant gains to maintain itself, especially in the face of massive deficit spending), which will continue to lead to societal unrest and political instability... AI and robots will exacerbate the complexity and fragility more than they alleviate it and climate change, with the more volatile weather system, will create increasing opportunities for black swans to create enormous set backs.

It's unfortunate, but Russia and China are going to be in a much better position to take advantage of the increasing uncertainty and chaos than the US and EU (dictators are shitty, but much more efficient in uncertain times). I recommend moving to Australia or New Zealand if you're not looking to get caught up.

Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreicate your thorough response and giving me all these resources to dig through. I think that in the past you had to be a very intelligent machiavellian-type dude to stay in power and it was a constant struggle. You probably had to be a very good at reading people and understanding their psyche. But there are only so many such guys and they can only manipulate so many people. I think technology has given people…

Yeah, technology is basically a lever that increasingly grants larger power multipliers to those with access. When high leverage technology is more accessible then it becomes a leveler for the playing field. When it's available only to those who already hold power, then it tips things drastically in whatever direction they wish and typically makes things drastically more uneven (though the Gates Foundation and others…

I like the lever analogy a lot. Mainly because it is scientifically accurate, the longer a lever the less force is required. Archimedes saw the value is this tool in his quote 'Give me a place to stand, and I shall move the Earth with it'.

> though the Gates Foundation and others do apply their power/tech toward leveling sometimes can you elaborate on this some more?

I like science and technology as much as the next guy and I didn't think I'd say this, but IMO it's contributing to a continually decreasing quality of life. A part of me gets excited with new gadgets, like smartTV and Alexa, and another part of me cringes at it. I kinda get where Ted Kaczynski was coming from when he turned against technology and industry.

> I recommend moving to Australia or New Zealand if you're not looking to get caught up. Why there?

Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#149

I'm reposting this comment because I would like to open the discussion up beyond facebook and social media and into the reality that technology has provided marketing with some pretty ridiculous tools. : I feel like you used to be able to avoid getting swindled by ignoring the swindler, ex. close the door to the saleman, or ignore the gypsy pear salesmen at the market. Today, marketing is engineered at such a level t…

I do not understand how anyone in 2018 finds the internet remotely usable without some form of ad blocker. This is how you ignore the modern salesman.

On the occasions that I have disabled my ad blocker and visited major new sites, I found the ad experience made me greatly question the judgment of the sites editors.

How can I trust the authority of a news site, when I am also seeing clearly deceptive ads playing right next to their content?

Re: DeleteFacebook: Perspective from Mastodon

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that Jared Diamond's book Collapse belongs on your list of references https://archive.org/stream/CollapseHowSocietiesChooseToFailO...

Amazingly, I haven't yet read any of Diamond's work, though I think I have this on my bookcase. I know that Tainter has criticized him some for cherry picking in order to support his presuppositions, specifically regarding his Easter Island ideas. I think he talks about it a little bit on this Omega Tau podcast: http://omegataupodcast.net/184-societal-complexity-and-colla... It's on my personal list still though, get…

I like his methodology, mainly because of a couple reasons. 1) We don't have that many civilization level societies to study in history, and 2) no society specifically sets out to implode, in fact there is tremendous benefit in not doing so. So even if we only had one collapse to study, we probably should do so and learn as much as we can from it, careful not to put too much value in the 'this time it's different' thing for our own prospects.
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