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WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

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Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#511

Post by zentiggr »

Freak_NL wrote: post #412
thirdsun wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I was not aware that Facebook invited anyone to take out that data merely asking them to delete it shortly after. That's the part that's new and offending to me. Meanwhile I tolerate political campaigns using targetted advertising. I just wish people were showing more competence when it comes to media consumption and the ability to distinguish between truthful reporting and obvious lies. The media illite…

Is media literacy something that can solve this though? A society can educate its citizens (and should do so), but a large group of people simply can't reach the level of critical thinking necessary to fully grasp the nudging and political weaselling they are submitted to.

I've considered the idea of a course for general education that specifically teaches about these psychological traits and the ways they can backfire... a sort of anti-manipulation, bias awareness training camp.

Set up scenarios involving

- fake news about classmates and show everyone how they respond vs researching and being skeptical...

- personal info security vs pwnage / outing / fraud...

- scenarios invoking biases and showing explicitly how they affect decisions and actions

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#512

Post by mattkevan »

simonh wrote: post #445
hycaria wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't put that much data out, but I don't mind being profiled. I like being suggested music that I'm susceptible to like based on other people. I think it's fine if one can infer out of my lifestyle that I would be interested in x or warn for risks of y. What is wrong with it ? I'm probably no statistical anomaly, I don't mind being part of some artificial cluster somewhere, helping having a more accurate portrayal…

I was talking to my daughter about that yesterday. Suppose Facebook knows your interests, taste in music, where you live, what good you like, etc. A political campaign could use that information to tell you that their local candidate shares your interests, lived in the same town, loves the same music, supports the same charity or whatever overlaps with your profile, while knowingly avoiding telling you about things y…

Thing is, it’s not dangerous on an individual level - no different to a friend telling you about a particular candidate and why you should like them.

And personalised ads sound great at the individual level - relevant, interesting products and services that I’m likely to interact with instead of irrelevant crap clogging up my screen. We’ve always had targeting and echo chambers.

But, like the algorithmic kids videos a few months ago or the deluge of fake news, we and our society are totally unprepared for the speed and scale that technology now allows. It’s the sheer quantity and pervasiveness - and the fact that it’s not obvious what’s going on - that makes it dangerous.

To (poorly) quote Charlie Stross, we’ve ripped out the mechanisms for how things work and replaced them with something alien, without anyone noticing.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#513

Post by Freak_NL »

thirdsun wrote: post #466
Freak_NL wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is media literacy something that can solve this though? A society can educate its citizens (and should do so), but a large group of people simply can't reach the level of critical thinking necessary to fully grasp the nudging and political weaselling they are submitted to.

> but a large group of people simply can't reach the level of critical thinking necessary to fully grasp the nudging and political weaselling they are submitted to. Isn't that exactly the kind of problem that education can solve? Of course that's a decade long process which doesn't happen over night.

Education can somewhat increase the percentage of people we would consider media literate, but there will always be a group of voters who simply can't reach that level of media literacy — some of whom are literally illiterate (a couple of percent in most modern democracies) and some who are literate, but can't (or won't) fully grasp the subtleties of media manipulation. Those are still a lot of voters.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#514

Post by jonbarker »

propman wrote: post #26

I don't get what changed? We've knows Facebook tracks everything, we've known Google does the same thing. If you've ever developed anything in messenger even today, it's amazing how much information is given. We know all these sites track everything you do outside of Facebook too. Everyone has been trying to get them to stop, we know it's illegal to build a profile on someone but Facebook gets around that by building…

What changed is awareness. I would like them to provide a resource which allows users to know which microsegments of facebook audience network they are showing up in, without spending any money.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#515

Post by jkFeiwi »

propman wrote: post #26

I don't get what changed? We've knows Facebook tracks everything, we've known Google does the same thing. If you've ever developed anything in messenger even today, it's amazing how much information is given. We know all these sites track everything you do outside of Facebook too. Everyone has been trying to get them to stop, we know it's illegal to build a profile on someone but Facebook gets around that by building…

> I don't get what changed?

Momentum. Sometimes people won't do stuff unless they know everyone else is too. If you quit Facebook and your friends still use it, you're missing out. But if all your friends delete it as part of the #deletefacebook trend, it'll be easier for you to do the same thing.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#516

Post by matchbok »

noetic_techy wrote: post #500
propman wrote: post #26

I don't get what changed? We've knows Facebook tracks everything, we've known Google does the same thing. If you've ever developed anything in messenger even today, it's amazing how much information is given. We know all these sites track everything you do outside of Facebook too. Everyone has been trying to get them to stop, we know it's illegal to build a profile on someone but Facebook gets around that by building…

Its purely Trump hatred driving this. Because Obama doing this in 2012 = Genius. Trump doing this in 2016 = Scandal. I'm a libertarian and yes I threw my vote away on Gary Johnson, but looking at the media landscape, there truly is a backlash against conservatives going on in social media, and this is just part of that. Donald Trump won because fake news... no wait, it was Russia and their abysmal social media spendi…

What Obama did was very, very different.

The fact that you don't know this (or ignored it) tells a lot about how biased you are.

And yes, there should be backlash against conservatives. They just elected a Nazi in Illinois.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#517

Post by randomwhatever »

gaius wrote: post #354
sgustard wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably have things to hide, but: I ignore ads. I don't click on political news. I pretty much ignore everything except my friends' vacation photos. Please tell me in concrete terms a specific downside to staying on Facebook. What's the non-tinfoil hat scenario that I am naively ignoring? Wake up and my bank account is drained, or what?

I ignore ads. I don't click on political news. You don't have to click it. For example I have zero interest in celebrities or reality TV, I've never clicked a link or read an article about them. Yet even I know who Kanye Kardashian is, and that he's married to (or is? * ) a woman with an enormous backside. it's pervasive, it becomes part of the background and what you consider "normal". I absolutely guarantee that de…

I maybe wrong, but unless he changed his name he is Kanye West and his wife is Kim Kardashian. And I know this not form facebook but probably from reddit memes. And again, unless I missed the fact he changed his name, it does prove the point that you really don't know who he is since you mixed up his name ;)

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#518

Post by chasing »

noetic_techy wrote: post #500
propman wrote: post #26

I don't get what changed? We've knows Facebook tracks everything, we've known Google does the same thing. If you've ever developed anything in messenger even today, it's amazing how much information is given. We know all these sites track everything you do outside of Facebook too. Everyone has been trying to get them to stop, we know it's illegal to build a profile on someone but Facebook gets around that by building…

Its purely Trump hatred driving this. Because Obama doing this in 2012 = Genius. Trump doing this in 2016 = Scandal. I'm a libertarian and yes I threw my vote away on Gary Johnson, but looking at the media landscape, there truly is a backlash against conservatives going on in social media, and this is just part of that. Donald Trump won because fake news... no wait, it was Russia and their abysmal social media spendi…

Obama's campaign didn't do what Cambridge Analytica is accused of doing.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#519

Post by take4 »

matchbok wrote: post #516
noetic_techy wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its purely Trump hatred driving this. Because Obama doing this in 2012 = Genius. Trump doing this in 2016 = Scandal. I'm a libertarian and yes I threw my vote away on Gary Johnson, but looking at the media landscape, there truly is a backlash against conservatives going on in social media, and this is just part of that. Donald Trump won because fake news... no wait, it was Russia and their abysmal social media spendi…

What Obama did was very, very different. The fact that you don't know this (or ignored it) tells a lot about how biased you are. And yes, there should be backlash against conservatives. They just elected a Nazi in Illinois.

> They just elected a Nazi in Illinois

If you're talking about Arthur Jones, you're being very misleading. He won the Republican primary, but it was unopposed, in a heavily democratic district, and he was already denounced by Illinois Republicans.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#520

Post by throwaway5752 »

greecejunkie wrote: post #290
throwaway5752 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, it's common knowledge. There are a pile of dead Russians ex-IC people all over Europe, the existing Mueller indictments, the Crowdstrike DNC Russian APT attributions, all of our own lying eyes...

Funny, I must have missed the Mueller indictments relating to collusion or coordination of any kind (it's coming any day now, though, right?). I've seen a number of process charges. I've seen a handful of Russians charged with, essentially, social media ads and trolling and setting up a Michael Moore rally in NYC. And, of course, Manafort, who is dirty AF (right up there with the Podestas, the Clintons and the rest),…

You created an account just to tell me that?

@dang, sir, I think you have a problem. Don't let HN be used as a platform to spread disinformation. Emerdata is starting up as speak.

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