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WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

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Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#271

Post by Taniwha »

GeneralTspoon wrote: post #230
alex_young wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The winning candidate won by something like negative three million votes. What other country would consider that a democratic outcome?

AFAIK basically all other democracies function this way - using voting districts - never using direct representation to elect representatives [1]. One similar example of this is the recent German election - I believe AFD had like ~10% of the popular vote, but only won 5% of seats in the parliament. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_representation

Germany (and NZ) use MMP - everyone gets 2 votes one to select someone for their local voting district - that provides half the seats in parliament, the other vote is for a party, these votes are used to choose the other half of the seats which, taking into consideration the parties of the local representatives who have already been elected, are used to pad out the party representatives to match the country wide party vote.

In both countries there is a threshold (5% party votes) that a party must get to get party seats ... looking online in 2013 AFD (spit) got less than 5%, below the threshold, and got no seats, in the recent election they got above the threshold and were awarded 92 seats (14%) - seems to me that the system is working as designed.

But just because they got seats it doesn't mean that the other parties are required to stoop to form a government with them.

MMP is a far better system than the FPP system used in many other places, most people end up with someone they voted for representing them, unless they are in an extreme minority (<5%), and it's pretty immune to gerrymandering. Personally I'd argue for reducing the 5% threshold to the size of one seat so even more people are represented.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#272

Post by sheepmullet »

matthewwiese wrote: post #250
sheepmullet wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were just conned into it all Were they conned? The truth is if the US doesn't fix illegal immigration and put a general slowdown on legal immigration then conservatives are done for and their way of life is going to be slowly destroyed. All indicators show first and second gen migrants overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.

Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant. This doesn't matter to voters. They ought to pick whoever will best serve them. So in that sense, I would argue that yes, they were conned in some respects.

> Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant.

I think it's the opposite - the people are done for. The party will just shift its stances. In many respects it already has - Trump faces almost as much opposition within his own party as from the Democrats.

If Trump doesn't sort out immigration expect the US to shift closer in laws and accepted practices to the UK.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#273

Post by heartbreak »

nilkn wrote: post #149
foxh0und wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, he won the election thanks to 80000 votes in three states. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/do...

Even applying such retroactive analysis to determine the smallest set of people who could change their votes so as to alter the election result, that doesn't imply anything about why Trump voters voted for Trump. That doesn't mean they were brainwashed by Facebook, that they're all white supremacists, etc.

> That doesn't mean they were brainwashed by Facebook, that they're all white supremacists, etc.

At the risk of engaging in a debate I don’t want to participate in, is this not building a strawman?

When I purchase a product after viewing a targeted advertisement for that product, no reasonable person would claim I’d been brainwashed. One might, however, claim I’d been influenced by the advertisement.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#274

Post by fareesh »

abalone wrote: post #256
fareesh wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is my point I guess - Facebook apps have had much more intrusive access to user data in the past. The only reason people care now is political.

Well no, you said more than that. > "Your side won because... Facebook made you vote that way" #deletefacebook doesn't mean that people think Facebook made people vote a certain way. It's about Facebook being a poor custodian of personal data and allowing it to be exploited to guide adversarial campaign efforts. Guiding where to invest efforts and dollars in an election campaign is extremely strategically valuable in…

My comment is about the coverage of this story, not the story. The story is being covered in the way that I've described.

Facebook privacy stories never get this kind of coverage. This story is everywhere right now, for political reasons.

People want to delete Facebook because of trust and that reasoning is perfectly sane. As far as the coverage is concerned, this is the same story with a Facebook flavour today.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#275

Post by Torwald »

booleandilemma wrote: post #221
Torwald wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your question. Me, as a European, I like a POTUS who doesn't drag us into a war with Russia, thank you.

I thought the narrative was that Trump was on Russia’s side?

I don't talk about US-partisanship in the media, but of reality. I am not a DC insider, all I know is that at this very moment I am living in peace.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#276

Post by vondur »

sangnoir wrote: post #259
vondur wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to CBS, the trump campaign didn't use the CA data ( they may have in the Primaries): https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-campaign-phased-out-use-o... In late September 2016, Cambridge and other data vendors were submitting bids to the Trump campaign. Then-candidate Trump's campaign used Cambridge Analytica during the primaries and in the summer because it was never certain the Republican National Committee w…

> the trump campaign didn't use the CA data That might be technically correct, but CA was unquestionably working with SuperPACs[1] behind the scenes to get Trump elected in November. CA was particularly proud of it's crooked Hillary campaign ("the OO of crooked was a pair of handcuffs"). 1. According to the Cambridge Analytica CEO in the Channel 4 undercover documentary https://youtu.be/cy-9iciNF1A?t=6m21s

I agree that Super PAC's need to be eliminated. One funded by George Soros was particularly effective in the anti Ray Moore campaign in Alabama:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/how-democrats-use-...

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#277

Post by matthewwiese »

sheepmullet wrote: post #272
matthewwiese wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant. This doesn't matter to voters. They ought to pick whoever will best serve them. So in that sense, I would argue that yes, they were conned in some respects.

> Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant. I think it's the opposite - the people are done for. The party will just shift its stances. In many respects it already has - Trump faces almost as much opposition within his own party as from the Democrats. If Trump doesn't sort out immigration expect the US to shift closer in laws and accepted practices to the UK.

Ah, I see. That's certainly an interesting hypothesis. Makes me wonder who the Republican party would target if their typical base evaporates. What would incline center-leaning individuals to continue to support the party after the shitshow that was the 2016 election?

Now you've got me looking forward to how this all turns out even more! :)

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#278

Post by throwaway5752 »

paulddraper wrote: post #266
VVyattPrentice wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the criticism directed at social media is certainly warranted. I feel compelled to take exception with your reliance on false equivalence. It's kinda qualitatively different when you're actively engaging in illegal activity while working hand in glove with a clandestine foreign intelligence service to undermine your own countries democratic elections on behalf of an adversarial foreign nation state. If you can'…

> undermine your own countries democratic elections on behalf of an adversarial foreign nation state Citation needed.

Not really, it's common knowledge. There are a pile of dead Russians ex-IC people all over Europe, the existing Mueller indictments, the Crowdstrike DNC Russian APT attributions, all of our own lying eyes...

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#279

Post by knodi123 »

fareesh wrote: post #269
Taniwha wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure Unions and Corporations should be allowed to express their views on a candidate. But np more than any other individual - that's the real problem, money amplifies people's (or corporation's) voices and corporations have a lot more money to spend on elections than the median voter

How do you frame that kind of thinking today though? Pewdiepie can reach 3.2 million people with a YouTube video. As can hundreds of podcasters. That's more effective than any ad. If Joe Rogan does 50 podcasts with folks pushing one narrative, and the corporations and unions who support that narrative donate to his patreon page as a result, how do you enforce this? If The Young Turks do 3000 hours of pro Hillary cont…

> Pewdiepie can reach 3.2 million people with a YouTube video

Yeah, but how many of them are old enough to vote? :-P

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#280

Post by throwaway5752 »

etcet wrote: post #237
Clanan wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's ironic is that Trump didn't use CA to win the election. CA was used a bit in the primaries but after that the campaign only solicited a bid as a hedge in case the RNC didn't share its data. CA wasn't used for the general election. On the other hand, the Obama campaign used sneaky Terms and Conditions to suck up friend lists and create a national social graph for the sole purpose of winning the General Election…

Where did you get that information? Channel4 is reporting that Mercer donated to the Trump campaign on the condition that he would take on Steve Bannon and hire CA. Steven Bannon joined the Trump campaign in August 2016, after Trump won the primaries in May.

I have no idea who could conceivably be taking issue with your concise and correct post (given the apparent downvotes). The dates don't lie. What was Felix Sater's role at that point, too?
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