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WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

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Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#441

Post by kingkongjaffa »

mtgx wrote: post #341
propman wrote: post #26

I don't get what changed? We've knows Facebook tracks everything, we've known Google does the same thing. If you've ever developed anything in messenger even today, it's amazing how much information is given. We know all these sites track everything you do outside of Facebook too. Everyone has been trying to get them to stop, we know it's illegal to build a profile on someone but Facebook gets around that by building…

This is similar to how revolutions happen. The government does something bad, many are frustrated by it, but they are still overall happy with the government, and only a few speak out. Then the government does more bad stuff. More are frustrated, only a few speak out. And on, and on, for decades. It seems like nothing will ever change. And one day "something happens" that makes all of that frustration come up, and th…

as the internet has matured, platform exodus has become harder, the 99% tech illiterate will not exodus a platform with years of family conversations and photo albums on there.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#442

Post by mattmanser »

simias wrote: post #431
leoharsha2 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing to hide” - most of the people a pregnant teenager being outed by the store Target, after it mined her purchase data – larger handbags, headache pills, tissues – and sent her a “congratulations” message as marketing, which her unknowing father got instead. Oops! Don't confuse privacy with secrecy. I know what you do in the bathroom, but you still close the door. That’s because you want privacy, not secr…

>I have nothing to hide” - most of the people a pregnant teenager being outed by the store Target, after it mined her purchase data – larger handbags, headache pills, tissues – and sent her a “congratulations” message as marketing, which her unknowing father got instead. Oops! Has this ever been proved or is it just an urban legend? I keep hearing this anecdote but I always thought it was fishy and could easily be ex…

It's not an urban legend, it happened, Andrew Pole was a statistician who worked at Target:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.h...

About a year after Pole created his pregnancy-prediction model, a man walked into a Target outside Minneapolis and demanded to see the manager. He was clutching coupons that had been sent to his daughter, and he was angry, according to an employee who participated in the conversation.

“My daughter got this in the mail!” he said. “She’s still in high school, and you’re sending her coupons for baby clothes and cribs? Are you trying to encourage her to get pregnant?”

The manager didn’t have any idea what the man was talking about. He looked at the mailer. Sure enough, it was addressed to the man’s daughter and contained advertisements for maternity clothing, nursery furniture and pictures of smiling infants. The manager apologized and then called a few days later to apologize again.

On the phone, though, the father was somewhat abashed. “I had a talk with my daughter,” he said. “It turns out there’s been some activities in my house I haven’t been completely aware of. She’s due in August. I owe you an apology.”

Also, a bit later in the article, they realise that being explicit about what they're doing is bad, people do care, when it obviously happens to them:

Using data to predict a woman’s pregnancy, Target realized soon after Pole perfected his model, could be a public-relations disaster. So the question became: how could they get their advertisements into expectant mothers’ hands without making it appear they were spying on them? How do you take advantage of someone’s habits without letting them know you’re studying their lives?

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#443

Post by rapind »

simias wrote: post #431
leoharsha2 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing to hide” - most of the people a pregnant teenager being outed by the store Target, after it mined her purchase data – larger handbags, headache pills, tissues – and sent her a “congratulations” message as marketing, which her unknowing father got instead. Oops! Don't confuse privacy with secrecy. I know what you do in the bathroom, but you still close the door. That’s because you want privacy, not secr…

>I have nothing to hide” - most of the people a pregnant teenager being outed by the store Target, after it mined her purchase data – larger handbags, headache pills, tissues – and sent her a “congratulations” message as marketing, which her unknowing father got instead. Oops! Has this ever been proved or is it just an urban legend? I keep hearing this anecdote but I always thought it was fishy and could easily be ex…

A little bit of research tells me that the story was entirely fictional. More of a case study / click bait of what might have happened. Media ran this shit out of it though. At least online. Eyeballs > integrity right?

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#444

Post by mattmanser »

rapind wrote: post #443
simias wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have nothing to hide” - most of the people a pregnant teenager being outed by the store Target, after it mined her purchase data – larger handbags, headache pills, tissues – and sent her a “congratulations” message as marketing, which her unknowing father got instead. Oops! Has this ever been proved or is it just an urban legend? I keep hearing this anecdote but I always thought it was fishy and could easily be ex…

A little bit of research tells me that the story was entirely fictional. More of a case study / click bait of what might have happened. Media ran this shit out of it though. At least online. Eyeballs > integrity right?

As per my comment, the NYT ran a big article about it quoting Andrew Pole, a statistician who worked at Target. It specifically says that this really happened.

Did your research find that story to be a fraud?

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#445

Post by simonh »

hycaria wrote: post #402
ramphastidae wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I’ve been explaining this stuff to friends for years. Even the most intelligent and rational dismiss it as paranoia or say, “I don’t care, I have nothing to hide anyway.”

I don't put that much data out, but I don't mind being profiled. I like being suggested music that I'm susceptible to like based on other people. I think it's fine if one can infer out of my lifestyle that I would be interested in x or warn for risks of y. What is wrong with it ? I'm probably no statistical anomaly, I don't mind being part of some artificial cluster somewhere, helping having a more accurate portrayal…

I was talking to my daughter about that yesterday. Suppose Facebook knows your interests, taste in music, where you live, what good you like, etc. A political campaign could use that information to tell you that their local candidate shares your interests, lived in the same town, loves the same music, supports the same charity or whatever overlaps with your profile, while knowingly avoiding telling you about things you like or are in favour of for which they hold opposing views. So you get a personally tailored, custom ad for the candidate pushing all the right buttons and concealing anything that doesn’t match or it knows you would dislike. Meanwhile it could also show you targeted attack ads on a rival customised to highlight things they know you dislike.

All the information might be true (or might not), but IMHO I don’t like the idea of people intrusively trying to manipulate me like that. We all have biases and preconceptions. We’re all open to manipulation and the last thing I want is my online world to become an echo chamber, turning me into a parody of myself. In the wider context, it’s also a threat to civil society, driving a wedge between us as citizens by magnifying our differences and promoting divisiveness. That’s what the Russian interference campaign was all about.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#446

Post by icebraining »

IanPBann wrote: post #426
jodrellblank wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(UK) The new surveillance law requires web and phone companies to store everyone’s web browsing histories for 12 months and give the police, security services and official agencies unprecedented access to the data. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/29/snoopers-chart...

While the UK is still part of the EU, will there be a case to have your history removed under the new GDPR legislation?

No, the GDPR allows states to include exceptions for such cases: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#447

Post by hutzlibu »

The big problem with the whole post-privacy thing is in my opinion, that it is asymetrical.

I mean, if everybody (could) know everything about everybody else, ok, strange, but fine. But the big powerful players know much more about the private lives of the average citiciens(or also politican), than the Gestapo and KGB could ever dream of, but we know not so much about them. This is very dangerous.

As it gives the people with all that (potential dark) information much power. Especialy when there are so many ridiculous laws around, disconnected from reality, like that Marihuana is still mostly illegal. And while for most it would not matter, but someone working in health sector for example, can get in serious trouble(at least in germany), if he would found guilty of smoking sometimes. This makes people vulnerable to blackmailing etc.

I can only hope, that there are also enough righteous people, like Snowden, involved, to blow the whistle, when things get overhand. But I believe there is something fundamentaly wrong, with the current direction.

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#448

Post by pbhjpbhj »

lowkeyokay wrote: post #351
azinman2 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re starting to. They just need enough examples of something having gone wrong with huge consequences. This is one of them.

And this would be the time to revisit John Oliver’s Snowden interview [1]. Specifically at 25:53. Since the topic is surveillance it may be inappropriate to link YouTube. If you haven’t seen it and don’t want to, the gist is people only care when their dickpics gets leaked... [1] https://youtu.be/XEVlyP4_11M

What about the overwhelming majority that don't take images of their genitals? Is there a downside for them?

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#449

Post by icebraining »

mmsimanga wrote: post #382
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once something like Facebook Messenger has reached a critical market share trying to get people to stop using it writing this comment from South-East Europe where many people use facebook not just for cat pics but to find work and network with colleagues. It's a huge problem in developing countries where facebook IS the Internet. FB recently announced it would roll out job-posts for low-income workers[¹]. This will m…

Echoing your statement, "Facebook is the Internet". In Africa most telecoms have special data bundles for Facebook and WhatsApp. Normal data bundles to browse the Internet are just too expensive. A dollar will give you unlimited access to Facebook and WhatsApp for about 2 weeks. I have a few cows back in my village. I have toyed with the idea of creating a cattle monitoring application that would have to make use of…

Getting FB to subsidize your cow tracking needs sounds great to me!

Re: WhatsApp co-founder tells everyone to delete Facebook

#450

Post by pmlnr »

meri_dian wrote: post #69

As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the vast majority of people really don't care what data Facebook collects. Addresses, phone numbers, etc are all publicly available already. Products you like, your political affiliations, etc, not a big deal to most people, not because they aren't aware, but because they don't care. So ask yourselves, if the vast majority don't care, perhaps it's not really that big of…

> So ask yourselves, if the vast majority don't care, perhaps it's not really that big of a deal.

That's not the question to ask. They question to ask is how do we make them care?

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