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The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

independent.co.uk

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Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#61

Post by canjobear »

fny wrote: post #36

This is a scandal, and we should not blur lines here. Facebook engages in surveillance capitalism. Cambridge Analytica engages in Orwellian practices of deliberate and targeted mass manipulation, actively deceiving users from the outset about it's intentions, and using lies as a means to an end. From the Facebook report on the reason CA was suspended: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to in…

Is there any evidence that Cambridge Analytica's targeted manipulation techniques were effective?

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#62

Post by pyjammas »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #46

This whole thing is just a convenient excuse for people to explain how Trump got into office. People uploaded their whole shitty lifes onto Facebook while everyone out there warns you to not do that. Yet people argued that they need a place to connect to their friends and all the other crap that FB-users come up with to explain this shitty move (much like cigarette-addicts). Also it is pretty clear how that data is s…

We once had a Hitler. Therefore any warnings of genocide are just convenient bullshit stories, and people just need to grow the fuck up.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#63

Post by sorokod »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #46

This whole thing is just a convenient excuse for people to explain how Trump got into office. People uploaded their whole shitty lifes onto Facebook while everyone out there warns you to not do that. Yet people argued that they need a place to connect to their friends and all the other crap that FB-users come up with to explain this shitty move (much like cigarette-addicts). Also it is pretty clear how that data is s…

Perhaps this is how growing up looks like

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#64

Post by fny »

nopriorarrests wrote: post #57
fny wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you about at all about the ground truth of American polity. (I have a lot of family that voted for Trump.) From my perspective, the election sent the right message but through a profoundly dangerous messenger. For me, Russia and Cambridge Analytica are not scapegoats: they are other problems that need to be addressed which are not orthogonal to addressing the economic inequalities aggravated by…

It worth remembering though, that this messenger was deliberately picked from the crowd of 16 (!) people during primaries. Voters spoke when they abandoned Kasich, Jeb and the rest. It's not like they had no choice. They had.

What's most damning is that the money involved in our political process gave us those 16 candidates.

They were all establishment candidates who've historically played the game that's lead us to the discontent we face today. They never really cared about the people either. Trump at least talked the talk in ways from an economic perspective (in unfortunately misogynistic and racist terms...) But I still believed that maybe he actually gave a damn at some level about the working class and genuine creation of opportunity and happiness.

Now I'm thinking he just really wanted to win an election at any cost and has turned the executive branch into a complete swamp... I mean... if this was supposed to be a referendum on corporate hegemony and cronyism, what the hell are all these millionaires, billionaires, and family members doing in government?

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#65

Post by enraged_camel »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #60
fny wrote: post #36

This is a scandal, and we should not blur lines here. Facebook engages in surveillance capitalism. Cambridge Analytica engages in Orwellian practices of deliberate and targeted mass manipulation, actively deceiving users from the outset about it's intentions, and using lies as a means to an end. From the Facebook report on the reason CA was suspended: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to in…

CA sound like a bunch of scumbags and I'm glad people are shining light on these kinds of activities. However, I'm not convinced what they did was really all that new or interesting. This is our modern world and it's terrifying. Call it marketing, propaganda, fake news or disinformation, we're being manipulated constantly by numerous unattributable actors. The more interesting question to me is why is CA being called…

>>However, I'm not convinced what they did was really all that new or interesting.

You say that as someone who frequents HN. Collectively we are probably the top 0.2% of the population in terms of technology awareness and know-how, to the point where we probably easily recognize this type of propaganda (then again, maybe not!) and understand how it works.

The same cannot be said for the overwhelming majority of the population though. In fact, I'd go so far as to claim that the majority of Facebook users don't even understand how Facebook makes money (even though the answer is so obvious to us).

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#66

Post by enraged_camel »

gt565k wrote: post #27

Watch the mini documentary of the undercover op by channel 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpbeOCKZFfQ This isn't just data mining, it's straight up misinformation, entrapment, and god knows what else.

Wow, the CEO of the company openly admitted to sending Ukranian hookers to opposition candidates' houses and hotel rooms and recording the interactions...

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#67

Post by zipwitch »

I'm not much of a social network user. A few forums and a barely-used Google account are as close as I've been willing to go. But it seems to me that they're just crying out to be regulated as a utility, if they're going to be allowed as a for-profit company at all.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#68

Post by noir_lord »

enraged_camel wrote: post #65
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA sound like a bunch of scumbags and I'm glad people are shining light on these kinds of activities. However, I'm not convinced what they did was really all that new or interesting. This is our modern world and it's terrifying. Call it marketing, propaganda, fake news or disinformation, we're being manipulated constantly by numerous unattributable actors. The more interesting question to me is why is CA being called…

>>However, I'm not convinced what they did was really all that new or interesting. You say that as someone who frequents HN. Collectively we are probably the top 0.2% of the population in terms of technology awareness and know-how, to the point where we probably easily recognize this type of propaganda (then again, maybe not!) and understand how it works. The same cannot be said for the overwhelming majority of the p…

I get that feeling a lot.

I was around on the internet back in the 90's and the stuff that came out in the Snowden revelations wasn't that suprising (Echelon was widely known back then but unconfirmed), We (meaning techies) have had the suspicion that they where doing this shit under the "just because they could, they would" approach.

Where Snowden was incredibly useful was that it confirmed it in a way that was hard to deny since it was straight from the horses mouth.

We might suspect that CA was doing shady shit but stuff like the C4 investigation confirms it and the confirmation is a valuable thing.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#69

Post by jiveturkey »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #46

This whole thing is just a convenient excuse for people to explain how Trump got into office. People uploaded their whole shitty lifes onto Facebook while everyone out there warns you to not do that. Yet people argued that they need a place to connect to their friends and all the other crap that FB-users come up with to explain this shitty move (much like cigarette-addicts). Also it is pretty clear how that data is s…

You are perhaps over-reacting. It's not a bullshit story, it's real. Yes, it is just more of the same but that doesn't make it any less real. We shouldn't allow one instance of evil to slide just because other instances have gotten away with it.

Anyway from a tech standpoint this might be exciting times. It could very well be the end of $FB. I doubt on its own it would be enough, but if someone has been working on a social network for the past few years now would be a good time to do a big publicity push? G+ are you listening!!

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#70

Post by weego »

enraged_camel wrote: post #65
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA sound like a bunch of scumbags and I'm glad people are shining light on these kinds of activities. However, I'm not convinced what they did was really all that new or interesting. This is our modern world and it's terrifying. Call it marketing, propaganda, fake news or disinformation, we're being manipulated constantly by numerous unattributable actors. The more interesting question to me is why is CA being called…

>>However, I'm not convinced what they did was really all that new or interesting. You say that as someone who frequents HN. Collectively we are probably the top 0.2% of the population in terms of technology awareness and know-how, to the point where we probably easily recognize this type of propaganda (then again, maybe not!) and understand how it works. The same cannot be said for the overwhelming majority of the p…

"We're smart enough to not fall for it but the proles stand no chance" doesn't pass the smell test as anecdotal evidence.

What they are doing is what marketing people have done for years, only we know from years of data and experience that these "profile and target" ad campaigns are barely above baseline for RoI.

The classic one is people who move house are more likely to go on to buy a new car in 12-24 months so they buy house sale data and target you with car info.

Supermarkets do tons of profiling based on your CC and purchase history.

None of this is to say that trying isn't scummy, but we shouldn't lose sight of the possibility that CA could be peddling snake oil.

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