The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works • Hacker News Board

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#51

Post by fny » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #44

fny wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is political weaponization of data and information for the purpose of putting an individual in power. It's not me trying to sell you a pug plushie or get you to use my accounting software. It's deliberately lying to seed fear, distrust, division, and hate between citizens. It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. It's the destruction of civil society and civil discourse for the…

The problem here, as is the root of almost all the problems we face in society isn't Cambridge Analytica. The problem is people lack basic critical thinking skills and the capacity to make good decisions. > It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. Nobody with any knowledge of history or good sense trusts any government institution. >It's the destruction of civil society and civil di…

I don't disagree with you about at all about the ground truth of American polity. (I have a lot of family that voted for Trump.) From my perspective, the election sent the right message but through a profoundly dangerous messenger.

For me, Russia and Cambridge Analytica are not scapegoats: they are other problems that need to be addressed which are not orthogonal to addressing the economic inequalities aggravated by the current system.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#52

Post by ZeroGravitas » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

talmand wrote: post #43

cryptoz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let's say that there was no Russian interventios to US election I know you're posing a hypothetical, but your scenario is impossible. Over a dozen Russians have already been indicted. Russia was involved. Period.

Personally, I'm waiting on the indictments of the US citizens, including high-level federal employees/politicians that have done the much same thing for decades in other countries.

You're in luck. The company this article is talking about was part owned by an American, and had an American high-level federal employeee as Vice President and their CEO has just been captured on tape talking about having done much the same thing in several other countries. Maybe you'll get your wish.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#53

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:17 PM UTC

mattmcknight wrote: post #11

Is it really that different from the 2012 campaign? "But the Obama team had a solution in place: a Facebook application that will transform the way campaigns are conducted in the future. For supporters, the app appeared to be just another way to digitally connect to the campaign.... That’s because the more than 1 million Obama backers who signed up for the app gave the campaign permission to look at their Facebook fr…

[deleted]

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#54

Post by moolcool » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

fny wrote: post #36

This is a scandal, and we should not blur lines here. Facebook engages in surveillance capitalism. Cambridge Analytica engages in Orwellian practices of deliberate and targeted mass manipulation, actively deceiving users from the outset about it's intentions, and using lies as a means to an end. From the Facebook report on the reason CA was suspended: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to in…

Apps and services not being forthright about what they do with your data is (unfortunately) the status quo. Facebook is the broker for this data in this case, and you'd be a fool to allot them any trust with it given their history. The Cambridge Analytica "scandal" is the system working as intended, but now with unpopular consequences.

Who could have imagined that a suite of tools used to manipulate and target users through commercial advertising and spam could also be used for political means.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#55

Post by HenryBemis » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

fny wrote: post #36

This is a scandal, and we should not blur lines here. Facebook engages in surveillance capitalism. Cambridge Analytica engages in Orwellian practices of deliberate and targeted mass manipulation, actively deceiving users from the outset about it's intentions, and using lies as a means to an end. From the Facebook report on the reason CA was suspended: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to in…

It will be really interesting (and pleasant) to see all these companies go out of business when GDPR kicks in.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#56

Post by bigiain » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:26 PM UTC

randomname2 wrote: post #26

mattmcknight wrote: post #11

Is it really that different from the 2012 campaign? "But the Obama team had a solution in place: a Facebook application that will transform the way campaigns are conducted in the future. For supporters, the app appeared to be just another way to digitally connect to the campaign.... That’s because the more than 1 million Obama backers who signed up for the app gave the campaign permission to look at their Facebook fr…

A former Obama campaign official is claiming that Facebook knowingly allowed them to mine massive amounts of Facebook data — more than they would’ve allowed someone else to do — because they were supportive of the campaign. In a Sunday tweet thread, Carol Davidsen, former director of integration and media analytics for Obama for America, said the 2012 campaign led Facebook to “suck out the whole social graph” and tar…

It doesn't matter which side of the political fence you sit - this is _clearly_ un-democratic.

What country is going to come to The US's aid and send in troops to "restore democracy"?

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#57

Post by nopriorarrests » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:27 PM UTC

fny wrote: post #51

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here, as is the root of almost all the problems we face in society isn't Cambridge Analytica. The problem is people lack basic critical thinking skills and the capacity to make good decisions. > It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. Nobody with any knowledge of history or good sense trusts any government institution. >It's the destruction of civil society and civil di…

I don't disagree with you about at all about the ground truth of American polity. (I have a lot of family that voted for Trump.) From my perspective, the election sent the right message but through a profoundly dangerous messenger. For me, Russia and Cambridge Analytica are not scapegoats: they are other problems that need to be addressed which are not orthogonal to addressing the economic inequalities aggravated by…

It worth remembering though, that this messenger was deliberately picked from the crowd of 16 (!) people during primaries. Voters spoke when they abandoned Kasich, Jeb and the rest. It's not like they had no choice. They had.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#58

Post by soundwave106 » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #44

fny wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is political weaponization of data and information for the purpose of putting an individual in power. It's not me trying to sell you a pug plushie or get you to use my accounting software. It's deliberately lying to seed fear, distrust, division, and hate between citizens. It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. It's the destruction of civil society and civil discourse for the…

The problem here, as is the root of almost all the problems we face in society isn't Cambridge Analytica. The problem is people lack basic critical thinking skills and the capacity to make good decisions. > It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. Nobody with any knowledge of history or good sense trusts any government institution. >It's the destruction of civil society and civil di…

I personally think the news on this is rather "noisy" right now (we'll see what emerges later). But from what I see of the Channel 4 expose (https://www.channel4.com/news/cambridge-analytica-revealed-t...), this story potentially involves far more than the United States election... and may actually involve flat out illegal activity.

Either way, I agree with you that the election of Donald Trump was more than just "the Russians". However, just because some of the elements were home-grown doesn't IMHO mean that we dismiss the degeneration of social media that has come about of late. Both from Facebook (and others, but they are the big offender)'s tendency to over-spy into your personal life (of which Cambridge Analytica is a symptom of this). And the extremely poor safeguards on API abuse on too many social media platforms (Russian and other Twitter political propaganda bots are but a symbol of the bot problem on Twitter and elsewhere in general).

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#59

Post by pbalau » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #48

stevenwoo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's a lot of young people fresh from college and they hear about the big five or whatever, and choose Facebook because they think of it as a social networking company and big, famous, and cool. Just an old guy's opinion - would not want to work there.

That explains the actions of (some of) Facebook's "rockstar" developers. That does not explain the actions of Facebook's data scientists, psychologists, product managers, and execs. Occam's razor - They knew, and perhaps they cared, but they cared far more about their salary and climbing the industry ladder to say no or blow the whistle.

Or maybe there is no whistle to blow.

Re: The Cambridge Analytica scandal isn’t a scandal: this is how Facebook works

#60

Post by AndyMcConachie » Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:37 PM UTC

fny wrote: post #36

This is a scandal, and we should not blur lines here. Facebook engages in surveillance capitalism. Cambridge Analytica engages in Orwellian practices of deliberate and targeted mass manipulation, actively deceiving users from the outset about it's intentions, and using lies as a means to an end. From the Facebook report on the reason CA was suspended: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to in…

CA sound like a bunch of scumbags and I'm glad people are shining light on these kinds of activities. However, I'm not convinced what they did was really all that new or interesting. This is our modern world and it's terrifying. Call it marketing, propaganda, fake news or disinformation, we're being manipulated constantly by numerous unattributable actors.

The more interesting question to me is why is CA being called out for it? I'm sure there are numerous groups doing this now both privately and funded directly by states. That doesn't make it right, but it changes the question to; What's special about CA?

I've been reading a biography of Allen Dulles called the Devil's Chessboard. Dulles founded the CIA and setup the agency as a prime purveyor of disinformation campaigns. These kinds of Machiavellian tactics likely go back further than The Prince himself. The only thing new here is the level of amplification modern data technology provides, but this is not limited to CA.