Revenue taxes on businesses that are effectively monopolies in their markets are... not smart. They will raise prices by exactly the amount of the tax and the only ones suffering are their customers who now pay 3% more for everything. I bet it would even be added as line item to every invoice “EU Revenue Tax, 3%” I’m sure everyone will love it!
Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
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Re: Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Every right. Their government, their citizens, their laws. If a company doesn't have offices in your country, it's not yours. >These companies exist globally Well, maybe the net result is to get out of the EU then, if the costs of 3% of global revenues exceed profits. If you don't think a company that is mostly non-profit (Twitter) shouldn't exist, I feel that's a pretty pathetic position. So you're either a very g…
> If a company doesn't have offices in your country, it's not yours. Google has offices in almost every EU country. https://careers.google.com/locations/ Aarhus, Amsterdam, Athens, Berlin, Bratislava, Brussels, Budapest, Copenhagen, Dublin (EU HQ), Eemshaven, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Hamina, Helsinki, Lisbon, London, Lubeck, Madrid, Milan, Moscow, Munich, Oslo, Paris. Prague, Rome, Saint-Ghislain, Stockholm, Vienna, Warsa…
Re: Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
#43Revenue taxes on businesses that are effectively monopolies in their markets are... not smart. They will raise prices by exactly the amount of the tax and the only ones suffering are their customers who now pay 3% more for everything. I bet it would even be added as line item to every invoice “EU Revenue Tax, 3%” I’m sure everyone will love it!
Not that you don’t have a point of sorts, but such a simplistic consideration of taxation seems dangerous to me. There are many theoretical possibilities left unconsidered including some obvious ones, such as fewer EU users of the American services, which is a reasonable goal in many ways, including the interest of the citizens. Also, not sure where you think tax money goes but, when a government is maintained to som…
The result will be that the EU receives more tax revenue, but it won’t being coming out of Google and Facebooks’ collective pockets.
Re: Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing is really changing in terms of taxation. Technically, the difference is relatively small - being taxed a small percentage of revenue instead of a larger percentage of profit (yes I know it's debatable which would be ideal). The really big difference is they can actually enforce revenue-based taxation, because revenue in a country is directly tied to the number of users/customers in that country. Meanwhile, pr…
People are up in arms about China as well, and IMHO, the US and EU should take them to the WTO over unfair trade practices. But stop focusing on Google for a moment, and consider poor Twitter. Can they really afford this tax? If you're already losing money, or breaking even, why should you have to pay taxes on $$$/user earned in the US or Japan?
If they can't afford a simple tax on their business in a region then they shouldn't be doing business there or at all. What do you mean, "poor Twitter"? It's not a person. It doesn't have emotions or feelings. We don't need to treat it like a poor little snowflake and make sure it never melts.
If Twitter can't handle being taxed then Twitter should die. That's capitalism. You don't get to reap the benefits of a region unsustainably and not aide in the development and growth of the region. Twitter in the EU without a tax is a parasite, not a business.
Re: Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
#45Out of curiosity, is there any European tech company that has 750m in taxable annual revenues?
Re: Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If a company doesn't have offices in your country, it's not yours. Google has offices in almost every EU country. https://careers.google.com/locations/ Aarhus, Amsterdam, Athens, Berlin, Bratislava, Brussels, Budapest, Copenhagen, Dublin (EU HQ), Eemshaven, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Hamina, Helsinki, Lisbon, London, Lubeck, Madrid, Milan, Moscow, Munich, Oslo, Paris. Prague, Rome, Saint-Ghislain, Stockholm, Vienna, Warsa…
Those are mostly sales offices, not corporate HQ. Do sales offices need to physically exist locally for internet service sales? Something to ponder.
Re: Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Every right. Their government, their citizens, their laws. If a company doesn't have offices in your country, it's not yours. >These companies exist globally Well, maybe the net result is to get out of the EU then, if the costs of 3% of global revenues exceed profits. If you don't think a company that is mostly non-profit (Twitter) shouldn't exist, I feel that's a pretty pathetic position. So you're either a very g…
I like your fire. I think we would have fun debating things for days. You've boxed the parent into three positions. They're kind of orthogonal so it's hard to approach directly, but consider a hypothetical 4th position. What if the parent hypothetically thinks that twitter is acceptable collateral damage if it means fixing some other abuse, does that make him greedy? What if he gains nothing from it? I think I've jus…
Let me provide an alternative hypothetical scenario: Major tech companies withdraw their businesses out of EU jurisdictions. They run sales and support remotely. They close down local offices. They host in clouds that sit on the border of EU territories, enough to provide low latency, but outside taxing authority.
Now what? US Internet services still makes money, EU citizens still have access, but there's no corporate footprint. Do you really think with such huge traffic, if Google and Facebook and Twitter shutdown local offices and entities that businesses still won't advertise with them? Advertisers go where the audience is.
The EU would then face a moment of truth about whether to bifurcate the internet like China did, erecting a Great Firewall of Europe, blocking access to properties that are not in compliance.
Lest people think this is about my employer, read https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~daw/papers/privacy-compcon... and search from "Cromwell", and you'll see reference to work I published in 1996. I heavy subscribe to John Perry Barlow's "Declaration of Independence" of Cyberspace. To me, the internet was the first new zone of human freedom in millenia that was completely free of state interference, and the "permissionless innovation" it enabled, where anyone could publish anything that was accessible to the whole world, shook me to my core as a young teen in the late 80s when I first go on the net.
I think many people who came to the internet decades later perhaps don't have that sense of awe I do, that sense of its specialness. And this continual chipping away at that original Utopian dream with nationalistic, provincial concerns, is to me the unacceptable collateral damage.
The collateral damage I'm willing to except is some people getting away with tax evasion, if it means more freedom is preserved and we don't end up with a splintered-net-of-a-thousand rules, where I need to be concerned about what the CCCP and Brussels and Congress thinks before I publish something.
Re: Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those are mostly sales offices, not corporate HQ. Do sales offices need to physically exist locally for internet service sales? Something to ponder.
Maybe Google will leave if they're taxed? Not the worst thing that could happen. The best thing the Romans ever did for the Britains was leave.
Did you also support Brexit?
Re: Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe Google will leave if they're taxed? Not the worst thing that could happen. The best thing the Romans ever did for the Britains was leave.
They left China. Did you also support Brexit?
Re: Tech Giants Set to Face 3% Tax on Revenue Under New EU Plan
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What right does the EU have to tax revenue (not even earnings) from money made on non-EU citizens? Every right. Their government, their citizens, their laws. > but global revenues? These companies exist globally. They would be vastly smaller and have far less impact if they did not have EU citizens. Network effects matter and ignoring them is choosing to not understand the big picture. > So they'd be asking Twitter…
> Every right. Their government, their citizens, their laws. If a company doesn't have offices in your country, it's not yours. >These companies exist globally Well, maybe the net result is to get out of the EU then, if the costs of 3% of global revenues exceed profits. If you don't think a company that is mostly non-profit (Twitter) shouldn't exist, I feel that's a pretty pathetic position. So you're either a very g…
It's not uncommon for monopolies to lose money on some projects as a tradeoff for destroying would-competitors. Thus the fact that a big company is not making a direct immediate profit is NOT a reliable indicator of them being benign.
I'm assuming you mean "not profitable" rather than a "non-profit", since the latter indicates an organization explicitly limited to at least ostensibly-charitable purposes.