At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre • Hacker News Board

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#111

Post by vietnamese59 » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

subpixel wrote: post #93

vietnamese59 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are Vietnamese. My dad actually fought in the war with the South Vietnamese army alongside US troops. He's a lifelong Republican, as were all of his brothers who also fought, as well as the vast majority of his friends and their families who arrived as refugees. They supported the war. They saw the US as liberators against the communists who wanted to murder them and take over their country. They love Amer…

Ken Burn's recent series on Vietnam is very well made and speaks with participants and stakeholders from across the ideological spectrum. Highly recommended: https://www.netflix.com/title/70202579

I know it's a popular series, and I haven't gotten my dad's response to it because he hasn't watched it, but many war veterans and South Vietnamese military members say it's not a very balanced documentary.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/29/veterans-angry-disapp...

https://www.military.com/off-duty/television/2017/10/02/vete...

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#112

Post by andrepd » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

vietnamese59 wrote: post #86

megous wrote: post #22

Sadly, similar massacres are happening almost daily in this world. One day you see someone start a twitter campaing like #iamstillalive, the other you see a reports of him being killed in an airstrike with countless other people. People are daily begging on twitter for their lives, to be spared, to someone help them. You can easily find similar images from what you see in this article, from yesterday, day prior, almo…

My parents are Vietnamese. My dad actually fought in the war with the South Vietnamese army alongside US troops. He's a lifelong Republican, as were all of his brothers who also fought, as well as the vast majority of his friends and their families who arrived as refugees. They supported the war. They saw the US as liberators against the communists who wanted to murder them and take over their country. They love Amer…

Maybe we should ask what Soviets think of their regime (most of them supported it, and still more people prefer the Soviet Union to Putin right now). That doesn't make their regime any more or less good.

And how does the "other side" committing atrocities excuse your own atrocities?? That's an appalling way to attempt to self justify.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#113

Post by andrepd » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

vietnamese59 wrote: post #98

namelost wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but the actions of the Viet Cong do not excuse the crimes committed the US, and neither does the nationality of your parents. To this day, many are maimed and killed by US land mines in the region, and the US does not give a shit.

You're setting up a straw man to an argument I never made. All I'm telling you is how my dad, his brothers, and the vast majority of his first generation Vietnamese friends (who arrived as refugees) feel about America and the Vietnam War. Despite what you may think, they wholeheartedly support America. If you don't believe me, you should try visiting Little Saigon on Bolsa Avenue in Orange Country and ask them what t…

Well thank you for that comprehensive study. I guess we shouldn't worry about the massacre anymore -.-

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#114

Post by scriptproof » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #74

eludwig wrote: post #40

I'd also like to recommend the Ken Burns "The Vietnam War," which can be found on PBS. It is amazingly well done and the depth of it is beyond most documentaries. For example, there is one episode (1.5+ hours) that covers a six month period from 1967 to '68. I was a small child during the war (10 in '68) and (to be truthful) only somewhat remember watching the coverage on TV. My mother said I used to ask her if I was…

Seconded. I just made it through the whole 20 hour series and it was sobering. I never learned very much about this significant war in American history (I am American). To think that we started this war to help an ally (France) maintain their colonial power over people who wanted to be free, and then stayed in it because it would look bad, is horrific. Nixon even interfered with peace talks before he was elected to m…

From Wikipedia:

"The North Vietnamese government and the Viet Cong were fighting to reunify Vietnam. They viewed the conflict as a colonial war and a continuation of the First Indochina War against forces from France and later on the United States. The U.S. government viewed its involvement in the war as a way to prevent a communist takeover of South Vietnam."

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#115

Post by Erlangolem » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 2:53 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #110

Erlangolem wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever been to Iceland? Sweden is remarkably united in their politics as well. Japan is much less politically and culturally diverse than most US states. Few countries are as geographically large and populous as the US either, even before you work in hundreds of years of immigration. I don’t appreciate your shallow dismissal.

I have lived in Germany and the US each for years and for months in several other countries. From the outside or on a short visit all countries look homogeneous. Only after a while you see the subtleties. From that perspective I don't think the US is any different from other countries. Maybe other countries are in agreement on things that are contentious in the US but then they have other issues that never get discus…

I disagree, but I can’t see the value in pitting anecdote against anecdote. If you want to believe that the US’ history, geography, and demographics make it essentially the same as (to use my examples) Iceland, Japan, and Sweden, I doubt that I could change your mind.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#116

Post by LifeLiverTransp » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

verylittlemeat wrote: post #33

lopmotr wrote: post #3

How do people manage to condemn this type of thing but not the 100,000s murdered in Iraq because of the US invasion? I can't work out how Americans think being proud of their soldiers - both left and right wing people are. Is there something I don't know?

During the Vietnam war that is what happened. Soldiers were treated like baby killers upon returning to the US. There was a sort of rebranding of the American solider after that catastrophe. The American citizen is now supposed to see the American solider as a utilitarian third party cog in a system where soldiers don't make decisions they just execute them. So if you're unhappy with the war you take out your disappr…

Wait, so a attack on a soldier is wrong- and attacking the government (aka the people in a democracy) is right? So the whole of the people view themselves as a sort of warlord?

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#117

Post by vietnamese59 » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #112

vietnamese59 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are Vietnamese. My dad actually fought in the war with the South Vietnamese army alongside US troops. He's a lifelong Republican, as were all of his brothers who also fought, as well as the vast majority of his friends and their families who arrived as refugees. They supported the war. They saw the US as liberators against the communists who wanted to murder them and take over their country. They love Amer…

Maybe we should ask what Soviets think of their regime (most of them supported it, and still more people prefer the Soviet Union to Putin right now). That doesn't make their regime any more or less good. And how does the "other side" committing atrocities excuse your own atrocities?? That's an appalling way to attempt to self justify.

Hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese who opposed communism had their lives slaughtered. What is even remotely equivalent committed by the "other side"?

EDIT to andrepd, since I can't reply to you because of post limit: You're using straw man arguments and I can't keep up. I don't know anything about East Timor but by "other side", I meant the US and South Vietnam. We're obviously discussing the Vietnam War and the participants involved and you're going off on a tangent that makes it impossible to have any debate with you.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#118

Post by quan » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

vietnamese59 wrote: post #86

megous wrote: post #22

Sadly, similar massacres are happening almost daily in this world. One day you see someone start a twitter campaing like #iamstillalive, the other you see a reports of him being killed in an airstrike with countless other people. People are daily begging on twitter for their lives, to be spared, to someone help them. You can easily find similar images from what you see in this article, from yesterday, day prior, almo…

My parents are Vietnamese. My dad actually fought in the war with the South Vietnamese army alongside US troops. He's a lifelong Republican, as were all of his brothers who also fought, as well as the vast majority of his friends and their families who arrived as refugees. They supported the war. They saw the US as liberators against the communists who wanted to murder them and take over their country. They love Amer…

Same as your dad, five of my uncles fought in the war on the U.S. side, my grandfather and granduncle served in the South Vietnamese government in high positions. My family was persecuted after the war, many fled, the ones that stayed spent time in prison and fled after.

In college, I read a lot on the Vietnam war and learned about the Tet Offensive with the Hue massacre by the Vietcong, the Land Reform prior to that. But I don't see how the photos at My Lai is "pure propaganda." If you spend some time to learn about the tragic event you will find that there were a big cover up and for over 500 human lives lost, only one man was charged and subsequently pardoned.

The U.S. committed to a war when it didn't understand the people or history of Vietnam. Vietnam has a long history of fighting foreign invaders, and most people perceive the U.S. as such as they are just replacing the French when they withdrew after Dien Bien Phu in 1954. Till this day, most Vietnamese people consider China to be their biggest enemy even though the two countries share the same political ideology.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#119

Post by LifeLiverTransp » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:03 PM UTC

snarfy wrote: post #54

lopmotr wrote: post #3

How do people manage to condemn this type of thing but not the 100,000s murdered in Iraq because of the US invasion? I can't work out how Americans think being proud of their soldiers - both left and right wing people are. Is there something I don't know?

Even with waning religious views the US is still a fairly religious and mostly christian country. I don't understand the pride at all. Pride is a sin.

A slaves spirit has to be like this, a nice, shiny face to those carrying the whip, a raging redirected hatred, to those stripped of all rights by his master.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#120

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:07 PM UTC

sailingparrot wrote: post #106

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The US" no longer uses anti-personnel mines outside the Korean DMZ (which is actually managed by the South Koreans). The US does not deploy them anywhere, and hasn't for years. Maybe its India and Pakistan we're thinking of, hm?

Did you really think she/he was suggesting that the US is setting up landmines in Vietnam 50 years after the war? Landmines can kill people a very long time after being deployed you know... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/18/vietnam-unexpl...

So you really think people 50 years ago are 'the US'? That was my point. Thus the highlight.