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China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

reuters.com

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Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#511

Post by candiodari »

foodislove wrote: post #504
jjcc wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree with you on this point. Most westerners don't have knowledge about Chinese "hukou" system and easily mislead by false information.

Most "Chinese" online seem to be paid trolls who deliberately feed misleading and false information. Either that or they have a switch in the brain where any critisism of China leads to a nationalistic brain freeze where they regurgitate silly propoganda. The Hukou system is broken and inconsistent. Getting mine revoked was the biggest pain the ass. I'm sure there are anecdotal evidence to support your view, but the…

Most Chinese abroad (that I meet, might be biased of course) seem to be students on a sort of foreign scholarship from the Chinese state. And they are terrified of the consequences of discussing this. Probably for exactly that reason.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#512

Post by dwd »

bogomipz wrote: post #136
bhouston wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a Black Mirror episode?

Yes, the episode is called "Nosedive." https://www.telegraph.co.uk/on-demand/2017/12/15/black-mirro...

It's probably time we started describing these types of situations Brookerian rather than Orwellian.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#513

Post by make3 »

jdietrich wrote: post #141
awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

Consider the restrictions that US law places on convicted felons. Millions of Americans have been stripped of constitutional rights, often for infractions as minor as stealing a coat or possessing half an ounce of marijuana. Felons often face considerable difficulties in finding employment and housing. "Once untrustworthy, always restricted" is a practical reality in the US.

both suck and both should change, and China is worse, is the conclusion here, I think you'll agree

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#515

Post by simonh »

emodendroket wrote: post #481
jimmywanger wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that the Russians invented rejecting someone's argument on the grounds that the person making the argument is a hypocrite strikes me as rather unlikely. That is definitely exactly what happened. We would say something about them invading Afghanistan or forcibly making satellite states in the Warsaw pact, and they would instantly come back with "Well, we're not the ones lynching black people." It's remarkab…

I do not claim that that did not happen; rather, what I claim is that there is nothing uniquely Russian about saying "what right do you have to criticize us by a standard which you yourself do not uphold?"

It’s not uniquely Russian, it’s just that it was systematically used by Russia far back into Soviet days making them a very strong example of using it to change the subject and avoid dealing with an issue.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#516

Post by musage »

newnewpdro wrote: post #403
eanzenberg wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been fashionable for a while to bash the top dog. No, the US isn't perfect, but how can you equate it to the shit china does day in and out.

It will be interesting to see what the US resembles when its numbers exceed 1 billion people. China in many ways is simply setting the precedent now, how the US follows remains to be seen.

Ah yes, nobody is doing anything, they're just following the rules of nature. And you yourself are not doing anything either, you're just stating how it objectively is. As usual when sociopaths and those obedient to them are discussed.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#517

Post by meganibla »

Finally, The whuffie utopia has arrived.

To everyone scared: go on, keep being misinformed about everything China does. It’s a common but useless consolation trap to fall into.

Until you actually can see them clearly how can you start learning from their successes?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#518

Post by simonh »

Muromec wrote: post #416
Chaebixi wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. It's terrible, it's even happening directly in the replies do you. This whole post has been almost totally derailed by whataboutism, and a lot of it is literally textbook : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism > The Guardian deemed whataboutism, as used in Russia, "practic…

>whataboutism a "sacred Russian tactic" It's not a tactic, it's rooted in traditional Russian law and stems from belief that you can't judge others while breaking exact same principle, or generally being immoral yourself. So pointing out that other party is lynching negroes is legit defense from some accusations from that party.

Except of course there wasn’t actually any direct equivalency. The Russian, or Chinese state explicitly and systematically oppressing people as official state policy is not equivalent to illegal oppression by a minority of a minority in another country that it’s government is slowly but successfully fighting.

Were the people trying to hold Russia to account for its knowing, deliberate policies themselves personally oppressing black people? Accusations of double standards were completely unwarranted, which is the whole point of whataboutism. Now we’re talking about America’s largely successful, if incomplete struggle against racism instead of the systematic oppression of people in other countries as official state policy. Thanks for that.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#519

Post by ajdlinux »

sosilkj wrote: post #375
Chaebixi wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. It's terrible, it's even happening directly in the replies do you. This whole post has been almost totally derailed by whataboutism, and a lot of it is literally textbook : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism > The Guardian deemed whataboutism, as used in Russia, "practic…

False equivalency is a tool that's deployed often on HN these days to steer (or derail) threads. I assume it's due in part to PR/propaganda teams working to manage/manipulate sentiment.

I don't make that assumption now that I personally know Westerners (work colleagues and such) who are apparently quite happy to make these arguments in in-person discussions.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#520

Post by meganibla »

Isn’t this actually a great idea?

If you don’t like it stop doing bad things and getting bad credit. If you behave you’ll have more privileges and be permitted to interact with others in more ways. It’s the basic social contract but implemented more efficiently. I can only imagine scofflaws is complaining.

If you complain it’s open to abuse well every human system not run by an uncrackable artificial intelligence is open to abuse. Don’t unfairly fear a Chinese system over a Western system when how do you know how clear your ideas are?

If you live under this system and really cannot stand or tolerate then just move to another country and cry out that you’re a fake victim and you can seek asylum from some generous Western nation wanting to pretend it’s morally supremacist.

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