Adrian Lamo has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#91

Post by CiPHPerCoder » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

throwaway9063 wrote: post #75

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a person's name from before they come out as transgender is called deadnaming and is a tactic favored among abusive people. The polite thing to do, regardless of personal politics, is to simply reassociate the person with the name Chelsea Manning and move on with your life.

"Hi, I know this is a thread about someone's passing, and I'm gonna let you finish, but unless you adopt my preferred method of reasoning on this tangential, hot-button topic that I haven't even given you a chance to properly discuss, you're an abusive person. The polite thing to do is to think and talk the way I'm telling you to and move on with your life, because otherwise, you're a monster."

> unless you adopt my preferred method of reasoning on this tangential, hot-button topic that I haven't even given you a chance to properly discuss, you're an abusive person.

You're literally putting words in my mouth there.

I said that was a tactic favored among abusive people. That's not an accusation, that's an observable fact about how abusive people behave.

I choose my words carefully, y'know.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#92

Post by pbhjpbhj » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

stochastic_monk wrote: post #74

jemfinch wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chelsea Manning" is the preferred name that refers to the person Lamo reported. "Bradley Manning" is a former, non-preferred name. Nothing about history changes if a different name is used; the same person is referred to either way. That you didn't recognize the person based on the preferred name only indicates that you've paid less attention to the news than you thought you had.

I'm rather surprised someone on hacker news could not have heard about Chelsea Manning in the past few years. (Or even just on the internet, really.) If you have any interest in artificial intelligence and automation or their effects on society at large, I strongly recommend her Op-Ed in the Times last September [0]. Like her or not, she's a big figure in cybersecurity, freedom of information, and international polit…

I have a very bad memory, perhaps the initial name association acts as a stronger pointer than subsequent modified pointers for me.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#93

Post by CydeWeys » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

_wmd wrote: post #53

VonGuard wrote: post #22

So, I'm gonna lay it out here as I am having a bad day and don't feel like censoring myself. I'd known Adrian since 1998. He came to 2600 meetings in SF and was a fixture there. In that time, he generally didn't make any friends. While he was gay, he was also stalking a lady at the meetings, and being super creepy about it. Eventually, he left SF and was homeless. He got in trouble for hacking the NYT and making hims…

I appreciate that you're being candid, but it's clear you also know that posting what you posted in this context is somehow wrong - otherwise why else justify it (childishly) on having a bad day? Now my complaint: you could have posted this tomorrow and I wouldn't have so much trouble with it, but hijacking the announcement of someone's death to air privileged /and/ gossipy bits of their private life, their sexuality…

The comments here are honest, at least. Complicated people yield complicated discussions when they die.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#94

Post by tptacek » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:07 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #5

I'm conflicted about this news. On one hand, he was one of us, and he shared his knowledge. On the other hand, he was a traitor, and he betrayed the trust of a true hero in order to put more unaccountable government power in the hands of people like Donald Trump. Who would have expected that Adrian Lamo would outlive Chelsea Manning? Did he commit suicide — as she nearly did?

This comment is gross on several levels. Don't imply that people deserve suicide.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#95

Post by mmjaa » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

jakear wrote: post #78

mmjaa wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are put in danger, really in harms way, because of the American publics' reticence for reigning in their military masters. You might think that American lives are worth more, but I happen to think that childrens' lives are worth more - of any nation - than any American. Or have you forgotten the innocent children that were murdered in cold blood by Americans', as revealed in t…

Troll somewhere else. If you read even the first line of my comment you’d know I’m talking about protecting Afghan nationals. If you continued reading, you’d see that I agree with leaks exposing the evils committed.

Protecting Afghan nationals - if they're on your side.

Ignoring, all the while, the absolute incorrectness of America being there in the first place. It was the USA who put those peoples lives in danger by starting a cold-blooded war against innocents. You wouldn't care a damn for the Afghans' slaughtered by the Taliban, if the actions of the USA hadn't put those Taliban in power in the first place.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#96

Post by tptacek » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #66

elefanten wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning is no hero, let's not go overboard. At best, she made a well-intentioned but horribly reckless mistake.

She's a hero if someone says she is, and that's all there is to it. I think she was a brave, selfless person in doing what she did, and I'm glad that the US got its ass handed to it in this way. American military crimes are heinous, and the entire nation is doing nothing effective about it. There are millions of people suffering because the American public are too cowardly to confront their own military. So by sticki…

It's Collateral Murder, not Collateral Damage.

If she's a hero "if someone says she is", the same logic canonizes Lamo.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#97

Post by CiPHPerCoder » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #80

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a person's name from before they come out as transgender is called deadnaming and is a tactic favored among abusive people. The polite thing to do, regardless of personal politics, is to simply reassociate the person with the name Chelsea Manning and move on with your life.

Um, OK and rewriting history is a tactic favoured by fascists. Now, where did that get us, nowhere. There was no person of that public identity in existence at the time, doesn't that make it impossible for such a person to have done something. Suppose Chelsea Manning were now to revert to calling himself Bradley (a situation not without precedent), or choose a further name - why should that change how we report factu…

> Um, OK and rewriting history is a tactic favoured by fascists.

We're not rewriting history. Allowing a transgendered person to choose a new name doesn't change the basic facts about what happened. It's just an act of compassion towards someone who would otherwise be suffering from feelings neither you nor I personally experience, but are well documented by scientists.

> Shouldn't it be "Bradley Manning (now called Chelsea)"?

You could say "Chelsea Manning (at the time, 'Bradley')" if you really wanted to refresh people's memories, so long as you consistently refer to her as Chelsea through the rest of the comment/essay/etc.

> I prefer objective to polite.

This is a false dichotomy. You can be both.

https://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Mar...

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#98

Post by _wmd » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #90

Reminder: Lamo is a public figure but also a real person with real relationships with people who will read this thread. You are all commenting on a Facebook thread written by Lamo's dad about the death of his son.

Thoroughly agreed. Would love to see the mods taking a much more active role in this thread

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#99

Post by phusion » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

notthemessiah wrote: post #48

praneshp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kids, don't be a snitch. No good group of people has that rule. I've seen/heard about that rule so far from the mafia, drug dealers, and bad cops.

Would you say that Daniel Ellsberg shouldn't have "snitched" to the public on the assessment that the Vietnam War was unwinnable? You seem to conflate "good" with "authority" here.

Seriously, I'm really surprised at some of the comments here. Some hackers have always been suits though, so I shouldn't be surprised.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#100

Post by loggedinmyphone » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

patorjk wrote: post #72

loggedinmyphone wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was Magus on aol https://mattmazur.com/2010/06/26/adrian-lamo-aol-files-profi...

That page isn't loading for me, but he was not the Magus behind the famous Fate X AOL prog. I actually talked to that Magus and several of his friends a few years ago [1]. I'd heard Lamo claimed to be Magus, and maybe he went by that handle in some cases, but he was not the author of Fate X. [1] http://patorjk.com/blog/2012/05/03/cracking-magus-fate-zero-...

He also went by Line Trace. AMP link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mattmazur.com/2010/06/26/adrian...