Adrian Lamo has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#41

Post by VonGuard » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:41 PM UTC

lainga wrote: post #39

VonGuard wrote: post #22

So, I'm gonna lay it out here as I am having a bad day and don't feel like censoring myself. I'd known Adrian since 1998. He came to 2600 meetings in SF and was a fixture there. In that time, he generally didn't make any friends. While he was gay, he was also stalking a lady at the meetings, and being super creepy about it. Eventually, he left SF and was homeless. He got in trouble for hacking the NYT and making hims…

Thanks for opening up. How much weight do you put in the theories (stated in other comments) that Adrian thought he was under FBI surveillance, and reported Manning's leaks out of fear?

Honestly, I can't comment on that. I know Adrian was a SERIOUSLY good social engineer, and a fair to middling hacker. The chat logs show Adrian going very in depth with Chelsea, so if he thought the FBI was watching, he was purposefully giving them a good show.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#42

Post by deltic » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:41 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #15

virtuowl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you mean but i am not sure how much he knew about the things manning leaked. Considering what he did before i want to believe that he had a good reason why he did it. Maybe he really thought people were in danger

As I recall he did it so he didn't get in trouble himself if anyone found out he new.

That's a generous take. A less generous take is that he fancied having his name in Wired again.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#43

Post by jsmthrowaway » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

VonGuard wrote: post #22

So, I'm gonna lay it out here as I am having a bad day and don't feel like censoring myself. I'd known Adrian since 1998. He came to 2600 meetings in SF and was a fixture there. In that time, he generally didn't make any friends. While he was gay, he was also stalking a lady at the meetings, and being super creepy about it. Eventually, he left SF and was homeless. He got in trouble for hacking the NYT and making hims…

Come on, man. His body's not even cold and it was well-known that he was experiencing mental health issues, potentially his entire life, including discovering he suffered from Asperger's after an involuntary hold (that he described himself). Your venting isn't actually far from that diagnosis making sense. Is this really the time and place for this?

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#44

Post by CydeWeys » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

patrickaljord wrote: post #34

kragen wrote: post #5

I'm conflicted about this news. On one hand, he was one of us, and he shared his knowledge. On the other hand, he was a traitor, and he betrayed the trust of a true hero in order to put more unaccountable government power in the hands of people like Donald Trump. Who would have expected that Adrian Lamo would outlive Chelsea Manning? Did he commit suicide — as she nearly did?

> On the other hand, he was a traitor, and he betrayed the trust of a true hero I used to agree with this but honestly, the second Manning contacted him, he was complicit with the crime being committed and would have been sent to the same horrible hole Manning was sent to. It was irresponsible of Manning to put Lamo in this situation, as an ex-convict he would have gotten life in prison, probably solitary confinement…

> I used to agree with this but honestly, the second Manning contacted him, he was complicit with the crime being committed

Are you sure this is true? You don't have a duty to report anything just because you become knowledgeable of it. Mere knowledge doesn't make you complicit.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#45

Post by amyjess » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #25

kragen wrote: post #5

I'm conflicted about this news. On one hand, he was one of us, and he shared his knowledge. On the other hand, he was a traitor, and he betrayed the trust of a true hero in order to put more unaccountable government power in the hands of people like Donald Trump. Who would have expected that Adrian Lamo would outlive Chelsea Manning? Did he commit suicide — as she nearly did?

"Traitor" is a pretty powerful word. A more realistic way to look at it is that someone—using a persistent method of communication—told him that they had committed a very serious crime¹, and he then had to choose between covering it up or going to the police. Covering it up or ignoring it could have meant he was an accessory. ¹ Whether it should be a serious crime or not is irrelevant here.

And to be honest I'd rather he snitch than contribute to a culture of cronyism that's all too prevalent in the world.

Like, discovering that a friend of yours committed a serious crime and then keeping it a secret is the very definition of corruption. If we, as a society, are going to move past corruption and cronyism, then we have to accept this kind of snitching, because it's the only way to defeat corruption.

For that matter, do you want to end a culture of people being sexually assaulted at frat parties in full view of dozens of people because none of the witnesses will go to the authorities? Then normalize snitching.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#46

Post by esturk » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

elefanten wrote: post #31

kragen wrote: post #5

I'm conflicted about this news. On one hand, he was one of us, and he shared his knowledge. On the other hand, he was a traitor, and he betrayed the trust of a true hero in order to put more unaccountable government power in the hands of people like Donald Trump. Who would have expected that Adrian Lamo would outlive Chelsea Manning? Did he commit suicide — as she nearly did?

Manning is no hero, let's not go overboard. At best, she made a well-intentioned but horribly reckless mistake.

Is that the correct usage of 'at best'? Isnt that just minimizing the range of discussion? Shouldnt the objective range be: At best, she's a hero. At worst, she's a villain.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#47

Post by VonGuard » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #43

VonGuard wrote: post #22

So, I'm gonna lay it out here as I am having a bad day and don't feel like censoring myself. I'd known Adrian since 1998. He came to 2600 meetings in SF and was a fixture there. In that time, he generally didn't make any friends. While he was gay, he was also stalking a lady at the meetings, and being super creepy about it. Eventually, he left SF and was homeless. He got in trouble for hacking the NYT and making hims…

Come on, man. His body's not even cold and it was well-known that he was experiencing mental health issues, potentially his entire life, including discovering he suffered from Asperger's after an involuntary hold (that he described himself). Your venting isn't actually far from that diagnosis making sense. Is this really the time and place for this?

Actually, I feel my comment is about as even handed as I could muster. Aspergers or not, he hurt a lot of people.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#48

Post by notthemessiah » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

praneshp wrote: post #38

cypherg wrote: post #11

This guy was seriously mentally troubled, and that's too bad. Chelsea Manning (Bradley/Bradass at the time) confieded in Adrian, Adrian snitched, and the rest is history. He did what he thought was right, but the consequences were absolutely disastrous. Kids, don't be a snitch.

> Kids, don't be a snitch. No good group of people has that rule. I've seen/heard about that rule so far from the mafia, drug dealers, and bad cops.

Would you say that Daniel Ellsberg shouldn't have "snitched" to the public on the assessment that the Vietnam War was unwinnable? You seem to conflate "good" with "authority" here.

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#49

Post by jsmthrowaway » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

VonGuard wrote: post #47

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, man. His body's not even cold and it was well-known that he was experiencing mental health issues, potentially his entire life, including discovering he suffered from Asperger's after an involuntary hold (that he described himself). Your venting isn't actually far from that diagnosis making sense. Is this really the time and place for this?

Actually, I feel my comment is about as even handed as I could muster. Aspergers or not, he hurt a lot of people.

And he's dead. What more do you want? We're all human beings. Can't you put it aside for two seconds?

Re: Adrian Lamo has died

#50

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 4:44 PM UTC

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #43

VonGuard wrote: post #22

So, I'm gonna lay it out here as I am having a bad day and don't feel like censoring myself. I'd known Adrian since 1998. He came to 2600 meetings in SF and was a fixture there. In that time, he generally didn't make any friends. While he was gay, he was also stalking a lady at the meetings, and being super creepy about it. Eventually, he left SF and was homeless. He got in trouble for hacking the NYT and making hims…

Come on, man. His body's not even cold and it was well-known that he was experiencing mental health issues, potentially his entire life, including discovering he suffered from Asperger's after an involuntary hold (that he described himself). Your venting isn't actually far from that diagnosis making sense. Is this really the time and place for this?

[deleted]