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ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

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Re: ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

#61

Post by joering2 »

bogomipz wrote: post #54
kevinSuttle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ProtonMail isn’t run by a data mining ad agency that works on military drones.

Not but its been around now for 17 years without a major security breach.

Well, my server runs for 19 years now without a major secuirty breach... so do I know.

But to answer OP: you cannot ever delete gmail message. Even spam is kept forever to comply with LE, since some of your real messages could by accodent go to junk. With Proton once I delete a message, its gone forever since it was part of my internal encrypted blob of messages. once I logged off deleted message is gone.

Re: ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

#62

Post by BLKNSLVR »

louithethrid wrote: post #5

I sometimes wonder, wether paranoid dictatorships could not be fooled, by automatically creating fake users in fake relationships, sending each other conspiring comments and information. That way all those secret service snoops could be kept busy chasing wild gooses, leaving the normal people they usually harass into oppossition, to go on about there lives.

So long as you're covering your tracks when creating these and using these fake accounts. Covering your tracks by using all the tools that are outlawed and detectable, thus putting a bigger target on your back.

If you're going to tickle the toes of dictatorially-run law enforcement, your security had better be watertight.

Re: ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

#63

Post by dogma1138 »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #45
dogma1138 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technical means to enforce a law are a bunch of guys with sharp sticks.

They can hardly run around sticking everyone for having what everybody can have easily and what is not easily visible unless too many people start collaborating and reporting each other.

Take a look at no other than Turkey.

Re: ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

#65

Post by bogomipz »

joering2 wrote: post #61
bogomipz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not but its been around now for 17 years without a major security breach.

Well, my server runs for 19 years now without a major secuirty breach... so do I know. But to answer OP: you cannot ever delete gmail message. Even spam is kept forever to comply with LE, since some of your real messages could by accodent go to junk. With Proton once I delete a message, its gone forever since it was part of my internal encrypted blob of messages. once I logged off deleted message is gone.

>"Well, my server runs for 19 years now without a major secuirty breach... so do I know"

Do you really believe Gmail and your personal server possess the same value as targets?

>"you cannot ever delete gmail message. Even spam is kept forever to comply with LE"

Do you have a citation for this?

Re: ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

#66

Post by peterburkimsher »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #18

In just so many countries (including those many people never know are in too) the state-led war on privacy and communication freedom is getting hotter and hotter. Some countries do it openly, some manage to look liberal until you look closer. Just try to start marketing a proprietary privacy-oriented messenger app or something like that and the intelligence guys will emerge promptly at your doorstep, demanding you to…

"the intelligence guys will emerge promptly at your doorstep" - for the US, I'm emotionally inclined to agree with you.

ProtonMail was developed in Geneva, where I grew up. It was a spin-off from people who worked at CERN, like the World Wide Web itself.

Geneva is also a United Nations base, and many other NGOs are headquartered/have offices in the area for that reason (the Red Cross, WWF, Amnesty, Greenpeace). There's a lot of local community support for the operators of ProtonMail.

Switzerland is not EU, although it is Schengen. International incidents occur all the time, such as the time I forgot to take my passport when going to school (my parents live in France, but I went to the International School of Geneva in Switzerland). Because people don't need a visa to cross the border, it would be easy for an intimidated web developer to flee the country. Attempting to get an extradition would then require an arrest warrant, which would require a criminal case to be brought against that person in absentia. Although intelligence services can try to threaten ProtonMail (and probably already have), there are a lot of options available in that area to keep individual staff safe.

Re: ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

#67

Post by megous »

Spooky23 wrote: post #20
qwerty456127 wrote: post #18

In just so many countries (including those many people never know are in too) the state-led war on privacy and communication freedom is getting hotter and hotter. Some countries do it openly, some manage to look liberal until you look closer. Just try to start marketing a proprietary privacy-oriented messenger app or something like that and the intelligence guys will emerge promptly at your doorstep, demanding you to…

Technolgoists need to remember that tech is nothing without law.

It's not entirely nothing. Even if gov. thugs are there to beat you, if you communicated with others safely, at least those people are still protected as long as you will not reveal their identity or whatever you've communicated about.

If the gov. just murders you and gets to your stuff, they can't analyze it to get at more people in your circle.

It just doesn't solve the problem of violent government. But there are still benefits.

Re: ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

#68

Post by bogomipz »

cyphar wrote: post #15
throwawan wrote: post #4

Misleading title: "ProtonMail is being blocked in Turkey", it's not blocked in Turkey, but by one provider - Vodafone Turkey. And for full disclosure you should mention that you work for Protonmail when you post here.

> it's not blocked in Turkey, but by one provider - Vodafone Turkey. But it has been blocked at the request of the Turkish government. So it has been blocked in Turkey (a large portion of people in Turkey cannot access it -- given how popular it is), and also blocked by Turkey (since it was government ordered). I'm not sure what your requirement is to say that something is blocked in a country, but far more than 30%…

>"But it has been blocked at the request of the Turkish government."

Where is the proof of this? Where is the layer 3 evidence of showing that users in this AS can not route to Protonmail? These are things that are quite easy to demonstrate.

What did Proton Mail's ISPs say?

Re: ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

#69

Post by megous »

bogomipz wrote: post #65
joering2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, my server runs for 19 years now without a major secuirty breach... so do I know. But to answer OP: you cannot ever delete gmail message. Even spam is kept forever to comply with LE, since some of your real messages could by accodent go to junk. With Proton once I delete a message, its gone forever since it was part of my internal encrypted blob of messages. once I logged off deleted message is gone.

>"Well, my server runs for 19 years now without a major secuirty breach... so do I know" Do you really believe Gmail and your personal server possess the same value as targets? >"you cannot ever delete gmail message. Even spam is kept forever to comply with LE" Do you have a citation for this?

> Do you really believe Gmail and your personal server possess the same value as targets?

That's also the point. :) Why put your data into a service that has higher chance of being targetted (and you may never know if it was). Also if you're in control of the device, you'll be the one receiving the subpoena/search warrant (or a swat team), so you'll know if it was targetted.

Re: ProtonMail blocked by Vodafone Turkey

#70

Post by tyingq »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #60
tyingq wrote: post #36

I lived in Izmir in the 90's, and the vibe was actually fairly liberal. The locals seemed to feel pretty free, optimistic, and not overly worried about their government. Sad to see things regressing so much.

Everywhere is regressing at the moment. Brexit, US protectionism, China's a dictatorship again. It's like none of the 'leaders of the world' have read any history. Or they have, and are arrogant enough to think 'that won't happen now that I'M in charge'.

Sure, but Turkey is a little different. It's going from, for some people "no issues, I'm influential and popular, if perhaps a little controversial", to suddenly "I'm in jail now, for probably months".
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