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Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

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Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#181

Post by pron »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #161
pron wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that people are better off with a quick resolution rather than a court case is also a political statement, as it's an opinion on what we as a society should value.

no. people are better off with a quick resolution because professional attorneys at the SEC decided that the legal case against Holmes is not strong enough to waste taxpayer money trying to PROVE she committed a crime. Calling their decision into question without a shred of evidence that they did something suboptimal, based on your political beliefs alone, is what I am advocating against. EDIT: Which part of this sta…

I am not saying you are wrong, only that you're making a political statement. Determining when to bet on a court case and when not to is a political decision -- do you draw the line at 85% chance of conviction? 60? 30? It can certainly be pragmatic with respect to certain metrics, but choosing those metrics, e.g. deciding that the aim should be the minimization of public expense and risk of failure is very much political. The metrics we need to optimize aren't chosen for us by the laws of nature, but by our political values.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#182

Post by slimshady94 »

_m8fo wrote: post #43

What exactly needs to happen for white collar criminals to be punished commensurate with their crime and consistent with the magnitude of "regular" criminals' punishment? Holmes' punishment is effectively nil. Meanwhile: [1] A man sells $40 with of cocaine and eventually 5.9g of weed lands him 20 years in prison. [2] "Illegal" voting lands a woman 8 years and deportation. [3] Possession of a few shotgun shells gets a…

Those people couldn't pay $500,000 and the shares worth in fines.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#183

Post by OrganicMSG »

abalone wrote: post #158
ChuckMcM wrote: post #23

Ok, this is the money line in that press release for me: “The charges against Theranos, Holmes, and Balwani make clear that there is no exemption from the anti-fraud provisions of the federal securities laws simply because a company is non-public, development-stage, or the subject of exuberant media attention.” For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your…

"Fake it til you make it" generally refers to acting like you believe in yourself even if you're filled with self-doubt. Not actual fraud.

I thought it was mainly about lying to others about how well you are doing, given that the central idea is that of giving an impression of success before you are successful, in order to gain access to the people and markets you require in order for you to become actually successful.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#184

Post by [deleted] »

SilasX wrote: post #90
ChuckMcM wrote: post #23

Ok, this is the money line in that press release for me: “The charges against Theranos, Holmes, and Balwani make clear that there is no exemption from the anti-fraud provisions of the federal securities laws simply because a company is non-public, development-stage, or the subject of exuberant media attention.” For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your…

>For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your strategy both fraudulent and they feel they have the jurisdiction to prosecute you. Holmes was, in many ways, embodying that HN mentality, acting on the basis: - that an entire industry has been doing it wrong - that it can be fixed by a low-bureaucracy, Angel-funded startup - that once you have enough success…

[deleted]

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#185

Post by SilasX »

abalone wrote: post #158
ChuckMcM wrote: post #23

Ok, this is the money line in that press release for me: “The charges against Theranos, Holmes, and Balwani make clear that there is no exemption from the anti-fraud provisions of the federal securities laws simply because a company is non-public, development-stage, or the subject of exuberant media attention.” For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your…

"Fake it til you make it" generally refers to acting like you believe in yourself even if you're filled with self-doubt. Not actual fraud.

Most who give that advice are very imprecise about which deceptions they're endorsing.

Almost like they're asserting a confidence in a belief that isn't really merited -- wish we had a term for that.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#186

Post by dang »

specialp wrote: post #165
SilasX wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your strategy both fraudulent and they feel they have the jurisdiction to prosecute you. Holmes was, in many ways, embodying that HN mentality, acting on the basis: - that an entire industry has been doing it wrong - that it can be fixed by a low-bureaucracy, Angel-funded startup - that once you have enough success…

People here gave me talking points based on what you are saying years ago when I expressed skepticism about Theranos. I worked in the diagnostic industry and know that 1. Many tests (that are in the comprehensive panel that is routinely ordered) cannot be done with a finger stick, they need venous blood. 2. This isn't like a social network you can start out of a dorm room, it is a 50+ billion dollar industry that is…

I don't doubt that the comments you're referring to existed, but the HN community has been overwhelmingly skeptical about Theranos for years, to the point of cliché.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#187

Post by dang »

SilasX wrote: post #90
ChuckMcM wrote: post #23

Ok, this is the money line in that press release for me: “The charges against Theranos, Holmes, and Balwani make clear that there is no exemption from the anti-fraud provisions of the federal securities laws simply because a company is non-public, development-stage, or the subject of exuberant media attention.” For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your…

>For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your strategy both fraudulent and they feel they have the jurisdiction to prosecute you. Holmes was, in many ways, embodying that HN mentality, acting on the basis: - that an entire industry has been doing it wrong - that it can be fixed by a low-bureaucracy, Angel-funded startup - that once you have enough success…

Please don't copy and paste content into Hacker News, regardless of how good you think your past comments were. The threads here are for conversation, not reciting from the record.

There is no "HN mentality", just a large statistical cloud that people see what what they want in. Most of that cloud has been the opposite of what you're suggesting. Commenters here have been not just skeptical but cynical and outraged by Theranos for years, to the point that it became tedious. It looks to me like you're engaging in a bit of revisionism for the purpose of posturing above the community. That is a popular sport but a distasteful one.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#188

Post by gjem97 »

saas_co_de wrote: post #91
nathanaldensr wrote: post #2

Theranos and Holmes have agreed to settle the fraud charges levied against them. Holmes agreed to pay a $500,000 penalty, be barred from serving as an officer or director of a public company for 10 years, return the remaining 18.9 million shares that she obtained during the fraud, and relinquish her voting control of Theranos by converting her super-majority Theranos Class B Common shares to Class A Common shares. Du…

Settlement is probably best for investors because they immediately get control of the company and Holmes basically gets nothing. The job of the SEC is to protect investors so they are probably doing the right thing here.

Yeah, I don't think she gets nothing. She was paid a salary for many years, I would't be surprised if it was a pretty hefty one. There were probably other perks, too (wasn't she known to fly private for business trips?). It looks like she simply relinquished some equity that probably wasn't worth very much anyway. This settlement doesn't look like much of a deterrent to future would-be fraudsters.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#189

Post by asah »

bane wrote: post #103

Ugh Finally. More than just the financial fraud, these folks engaged in behavior that actively endangered the public. I hope this isn't the end of the government actions against them. Her public behavior was exceptionally bizarre and almost none of what's been revealed comes as any real surprise. For timeline purposes: Dec 24, 2017 - They get $100m lifeline investment https://www.wsj.com/articles/blood-testing-firm-t…

pls reorder in time-sequence typo: $25 ==> $25mm

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#190

Post by Karunamon »

tacon wrote: post #176
Karunamon wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[disregard this, not enough caffiene today apparently] Separation of powers. The SEC is part of the executive branch. The judicial branch is responsible for bringing suit. If you want the why for that why, that's a philosophical discussion that probably won't be well served by a HN comment thread.

Huh? The judicial branch is just judges, not prosecutors.

Bah, got mixed up. The overall point remains the same. They have to be granted that power, not restricted from it.
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