Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

sec.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 557 posts

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#161

Post by vasilipupkin »

pron wrote: post #72
vasilipupkin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let's dispense with political bullshit. A protracted lawsuit would cost the government millions of dollars with an uncertain outcome. Instead, Holmes is paying the government 500K and returning shares. The SEC is going to court against Balwani, where the case is presumably stronger. the plebs is strictly better off and not everything the government does is bad.

Saying that people are better off with a quick resolution rather than a court case is also a political statement, as it's an opinion on what we as a society should value.

no. people are better off with a quick resolution because professional attorneys at the SEC decided that the legal case against Holmes is not strong enough to waste taxpayer money trying to PROVE she committed a crime. Calling their decision into question without a shred of evidence that they did something suboptimal, based on your political beliefs alone, is what I am advocating against.

EDIT: Which part of this statement are the downvoters disagreeing with ?

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#162

Post by geofft »

SilasX wrote: post #136
evrydayhustling wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have all of those listed beliefs and still be honest about the actual state of your company, progress towards goals, etc. Doing so will probably beat those beliefs out of you, and you can come to an honest understanding of your limits. Arrogant, presumptive behavior is annoying -- but I think it's important to keep a bright line between that and dishonesty, because one self corrects and the other doesn't. And…

Then I'm confused: how can you a) hastily dismiss all self-doubt as Impostor Syndrome and b) believe "no one knows what they're doing either" while remaining able to accurately, honestly self-assess your skill, quality of work, and prospects for success? Edit: If you have a good answer, then I would suggest we start posting that as the advice ("here's how you know if you're good enough") rather than immediately tell…

What's the original referent of your impostor syndrome comment? As I see the term used, it generally means "I'm an impostor among this crowd of other people who do actually know what they're doing," not "I am unable to do this thing that nobody has ever done."

That is, if you believe that you can't learn kernel hacking, that's (potentially) impostor syndrome. Lots of people have in fact learned kernel hacking, you can learn it too. Your self-doubt about it is based on (falsely) thinking that you are individually incapable of doing a thing plenty of others have done. But if you believe you can't build a perpetual motion machine, that's just thermodynamics. Nobody has built a perpetual motion machine, and doubt about your ability to do so (which isn't really self-doubt) will be quickly confirmed by a survey of the literature.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#163

Post by evrydayhustling »

SilasX wrote: post #136
evrydayhustling wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have all of those listed beliefs and still be honest about the actual state of your company, progress towards goals, etc. Doing so will probably beat those beliefs out of you, and you can come to an honest understanding of your limits. Arrogant, presumptive behavior is annoying -- but I think it's important to keep a bright line between that and dishonesty, because one self corrects and the other doesn't. And…

Then I'm confused: how can you a) hastily dismiss all self-doubt as Impostor Syndrome and b) believe "no one knows what they're doing either" while remaining able to accurately, honestly self-assess your skill, quality of work, and prospects for success? Edit: If you have a good answer, then I would suggest we start posting that as the advice ("here's how you know if you're good enough") rather than immediately tell…

To me, "zero self-doubt" and "nobody knows what they're doing" are predictive hypotheses that can be falsified by future experience, when you get beat. I guess if you're talking about a psychopathic condition where your self-doubt bit is hard-wired to 0, then yeah you're not going to be able to assess your progress.

Those folks exist, but I meet plenty of basically honest people who are arrogant before experience and humbled after. Far more than the raging narcissists who will do what Holmes is accused of, though those get attention.

As a recent dad, I think a lot about sending my guys into a world with 10B people in it, moving incredibly fast publicizing accomplishments (real and otherwise) in ways that make it seem like every niche is filled up. It's clear to me that irreverence for status quo and honesty with themselves are going to be equally important in them finding a niche for themselves.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#164

Post by cmurf »

_m8fo wrote: post #85
DannyBee wrote: post #62

People keep complaining about lack of jail time. As has been repeated in a number of subcomments: The SEC cannot send people to jail. Full stop. They have only civil authority. They refer criminal cases to the US attorneys/DOJ, and offer assistance. All evidence suggests they did so here. The decision to criminally prosecute or not is out of their hands.

Why can't the SEC send people to jail? I don't understand the point you're making. If people believe something is an injustice should they just shut up? Even if they can't send people to jail people should complain if they feel that shouldn't be the case -- it's a signal that perhaps the current process is wrong. After all, all restrictions and rules were created by us to begin with. Complaining can be useful feedbac…

Regulatory agencies lack the authority. It's the same with the FAA. If you're a pilot and you fly drunk, the FAA will revoke your certification, but forward the case to the DoJ who have a U.S. attorney assigned to prosecute the case in federal court under federal law, not under FAA regulations. (Of course flying drunk tends to solve itself.)

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#165

Post by specialp »

SilasX wrote: post #90
ChuckMcM wrote: post #23

Ok, this is the money line in that press release for me: “The charges against Theranos, Holmes, and Balwani make clear that there is no exemption from the anti-fraud provisions of the federal securities laws simply because a company is non-public, development-stage, or the subject of exuberant media attention.” For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your…

>For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your strategy both fraudulent and they feel they have the jurisdiction to prosecute you. Holmes was, in many ways, embodying that HN mentality, acting on the basis: - that an entire industry has been doing it wrong - that it can be fixed by a low-bureaucracy, Angel-funded startup - that once you have enough success…

People here gave me talking points based on what you are saying years ago when I expressed skepticism about Theranos. I worked in the diagnostic industry and know that 1. Many tests (that are in the comprehensive panel that is routinely ordered) cannot be done with a finger stick, they need venous blood. 2. This isn't like a social network you can start out of a dorm room, it is a 50+ billion dollar industry that is highly regulated and needs real science.

What if some 20 year old business major drop out said they are going to make chipsets double the speed of the old and lumbering tech companies like Intel? Everyone here would say no way and never think that would be disrupted so easily. So yes it is a case of people with HN mentality thinking that well taking blood via a venous draw and giving me my results a day later is cumbersome and stupid, and rife for disruption. Someone thinking outside the box despite me or that person knowing next to nothing about clinical lab tech can easily make it better than Roche, Quest, Lab Corp, Abbot etc. because they can move quicker, and disregard the old paradigms. With no consideration for the physical impossibility with known scientific knowledge!

So yeah please by all means look at how smug a lot of us were on earlier Theranos postings about the Steve Jobs of med tech. It is a valuable lesson to learn. Not everything is inconvenient for no reason, and not everything can be disrupted without some serious demonstrable tech.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#166

Post by matte_black »

abalone wrote: post #158
ChuckMcM wrote: post #23

Ok, this is the money line in that press release for me: “The charges against Theranos, Holmes, and Balwani make clear that there is no exemption from the anti-fraud provisions of the federal securities laws simply because a company is non-public, development-stage, or the subject of exuberant media attention.” For all those entrepreneurs are trying to "fake it until you make it" be aware that the SEC considers your…

"Fake it til you make it" generally refers to acting like you believe in yourself even if you're filled with self-doubt. Not actual fraud.

You can believe in yourself without faking anything, and it’s healthy to do so.

Faking it implies you want to give others the impression you’re already a big shot, and it dilutes out the accomplishments of people who actually made it.

The downside should be that if you’re faking it and you don’t make it, your shame should be relentless and brutal, and no one should ever take you seriously again. Also, even if you make it you will feel alone and empty in your success, because everyone will have long thought you already “made it” and you have to continue hiding your true story. There is no one to celebrate with except those who are also in on it.

Where as if you would have just been humble and true to where you currently are, people have headroom to express sympathy and support should you encounter a setback.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#167

Post by neveroffensive »

driven20 wrote: post #114
unquietcode wrote: post #95

You can commit most crimes in this world with relative impunity, but the number one rule is never steal from the rich.

I have seen this idea from time to time. I don't think it's right. The problem is they are stealing from people with abilities, smarts, and resources. Of course, there are going to be backlashes.

> The problem is they are stealing from people with abilities, smarts, and resources.

To be fair, these sorts of people tend to be wealthy.

I think the real lesson is don't steal in the public eye. Theranos had so much press surrounding their rise, and fall. It was inevitable the SEC would get involved.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#168

Post by fwdpropaganda »

padobson wrote: post #146
fwdpropaganda wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- dropping out is a positive thing (the implication being that education is either a scam or for dumb people, not smart people like us)

This feels more like an over-correction to the prevailing cultural wisdom that everyone needs a post-secondary education. Contrary thesis to the prevailing wisdom is where a lot of startup fortunes have been made. Hopefully we're about to land in a cultural place where getting an education is seen as getting an education, rather than either a panacea for individual success or a complete waste of time/money for the do…

I agree with every word, but at the same time I think a lot of people here on HN like to use hating on education as a humblebrag for how smart they are.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#169

Post by Bartweiss »

unquietcode wrote: post #95

You can commit most crimes in this world with relative impunity, but the number one rule is never steal from the rich.

"Lying about deals with the same government that will eventually prosecute you" seems like another pretty obvious rule.

Claiming you have contracts signed when you don't is fraud, but claiming you have $100M in DoD revenue when you don't is elaborate corporate suicide.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#170

Post by Kliment »

Unfortunately pricks.com, by Blake Ross, is no longer online. However, the CDN that hosted it is still up so here is the direct link - it's a script for a comedy show based on theranos, and painfully close to reality https://web.archive.org/web/20160604083644/http://static1.sq...
Post reply on HN