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Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

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Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#81

Post by watwut »

leekyle333 wrote: post #65
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I found this NYT article from a while back fascinating. Basically this guy has TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation) and he starts feeling more emotion. He discovers his wife is super controlling and ends up getting a divorce. He's not sure how much better his life actually gets from this "cure". https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/an-experimental-au...

Neurotypical kids learn to deal with seeing others emotions whole their lives - he got suddenly thrown into sea and got overwhelmed.

For that matter, so were his closest friends.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#82

Post by watwut »

damm wrote: post #67

Mostly parents will be into this. No one would do this to themselves as they will have similar feelings as most (they don't want to give up who they are). Wether being on the spectrum has been good or bad for you; it is you. However parents are really great here; they really don't give a crap about their kids feelings they just want the _best_ for him. > What I mean is they don't want to be embarrassed by their child…

Quite frankly, needs of autistic child would drive me crazy. It is not easy to be forced to total routine, it is not easy to deal with major temper tamtrums kid objectively cant control well over the age you get these with neurotypical kids. It is major work to negotiate the rest of world for them.

Being parent of autistic child is much harder then being parent of Neurotypical child. Some level of "I want my life to be easier too" is not betrayal.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#83

Post by hnuser1234 »

canttestthis wrote: post #78
hnuser1234 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I could undo whatever 8 years of concerta did to my brain (and start growing like a kid again where I left off), I would give my life earnings for that.

Could you elaborate?

Concerta/ritalin/etc are sit down and shut up drugs. It makes you feel neurotic and trapped inside your own head so you're not as physically disruptive as a healthy kid should be. It leads to paranoia and anxiety that you only grow accustomed to and can't grow out of. The lack of appetite stunts development. Just look for real world stories of people who've taken these drugs and paid more attention to what happened to themselves than "yeah I was less disruptive."

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#84

Post by Angostura »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

> I’m not sure this will be very attractive outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario.

I think that's exactly the value. Once you've tried it out, you'll be able to make an informed choice. I certainly wouldn't presume to choose for you, and I hope no-one else would do so either.

The "disadvantage" is that the article repeatedly calls the effects "long lasting"

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#85

Post by nugga »

scardine wrote: post #76
Turing_Machine wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you believe otherwise?

There is no evolutionary pressure. Evolution is not an endless race to a superior form: mother nature is content with "good enough". Many modern sharks arrived 100 million years ago while modern humans are believed to be 70,000 years old. Why? Sharks were good enough. Humans are good enough now. Even weak people can survive just fine - even people with defective genes that would not survive enough to reproduce a cent…

Don't mistake the term evolution for selecting only intrinsically superior or ideal traits. What if humanity evolve to being dominantly near sighted because it is no longer a killer condition?

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#86

Post by kolinko »

BadCookie wrote: post #45
rocqua wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really make sense to partition the spectrum? It feels more reasonable to replace these exact partitions with something like 'prototypes'. The partitions would make sense if each partition corresponded to a specific physical 'defect'. Such that it actually makes sense to treat everyone in that partition the same. This is why we distinguish diabetes Type 1 from diabetes type 2. This is why we distinguish betwee…

Autism can't be described along a single dimension like temperature can be. Some people with autism are sensory-seeking, some are sensory-avoiding, some are a mix of both. Some act almost immune to pain, while others definitely aren't. Some have no sense of danger, while others are overly cautious and afraid. Some are violent, but most aren't. Some never speak, but most do. Some run wild, while others are rule-follow…

It's definitely not the same condition - like in most cases in psychiatry.

Unlike in medicine, when you can often classify problems by their pinpointed sources (e.g. a virus/bacteria), in psychiatry it's usually a set of genes and other factors that comes into play, and various subsystems that broke down giving a certain outcome.

We group psychiatric disorders the way we do it, because the science for distinguishing the sources of disorders isn't good enough yet to have a better system.

It's similar to the taxonomy of plant&animal species before the advent of genetics. We had to group them by the way they looked, not by their real relationships.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#87

Post by incognito89265 »

alanh wrote: post #10
glibgil wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what effect (if any) it would have super charisma

Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).

Maybe you're thinking of this post[0] by gwern? It does list some plausible loopholes to the general rule.

[0] https://www.gwern.net/Drug-heuristics

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#88

Post by loriverkutya »

bsder wrote: post #49
taurath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. IMO we need clear clinical definitions of different parts of the spectrum so we can have more intelligent conversations about it - is a study cohort involving 10 year olds ones who cannot clothe themselves or participate i…

> So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. Well, being able to take a child who is severely autistic with no chance of independent life and moving them to a self-sufficient, if slightly odd, adult is probably more useful to society than helping adults or children…

Autism is not a disease.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#89

Post by antihero »

Waterluvian wrote: post #23
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I have ADHD. Drugs like ritalin never "fixed" me. They basically allowed me an exchange: give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something. I won't write an essay here but trust me that the two versions of me were day and night and both had significant benefits and challenges. I really struggled growing up. By the time I got to college I learned to use the dr…

ADHD checking in - I function with my ADHD and it's part of who I am. All I need is a little support and understanding due to my lacking organisational abilities and consistency.

That said, I remember someone who's younger brother was severely autistic. He'd shit himself as a means of communication, he was barely able to talk - he'd never be able to integrate in any meaningful way. His parents lives were spent 24/7 caring for this kid. They loved him but it destroyed their family. If a drug could bring someone like that to the level they can be mildly autistic and function and provide a far higher quality of life to those and those who would otherwise have to support them, why not at least make it an option?

As long as we're just fixing impairments, not trying to "fix" people.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#90

Post by ada1981 »

Couple things...

This drug is naturally occurring and derived from a bacteria that is found in soil. Curious about a link between kids not playing in the dirt enough and autism.

Second, this drug is used to treat lymphoma. Surely their have been kids with autism who also had lymphoma who were exposed to this drug. Would be useful to look and see if there are cases of autism being cured along with lymphoma treatment (thanks to my mom, @DrJanetRose for that insight).

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