Earlier quoted context omitted.
...
deleting this comment as i will by flying a few weeks
this is exactly what you shouldn't be afraid of.
Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
71–80 of 212 posts
Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If I understand it correctly, the TSA is not forcing anyone to unlock devices. I'm sure they also don't shrug their shoulders and say "Locked? Oh well.". Varying degrees of coercion, threat, implicit or otherwise, relying on passenger ignorance to their rights. I wonder how many have unlocked it at their request too, which is specifically different from "forced".
What makes you so sure of that? I’ve had them swab electronics for explosives before and they never even try to turn the things on. I’m pretty sure I’ve had them ask me once or twice to prove that a laptop was real by turning it on, and they never asked for it to be unlocked. That’s my whole point: this article appears to be written to make you assume that a lot more is going on than they actually describe.
I have been always asked to turn my devices on after a search for explosives (and whatever other substances they look for). They do that "to be sure you don't only carry the structure of the device to hide stuff inside". This happens in european flights.
Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
#73This article seems like it’s written to be deliberately confusing. If I understand it correctly, the TSA is not forcing anyone to unlock devices. They take the devices away for some period, but if they’re securely locked, TSA won’t be able to get anything from them. However, the article drops border searches which do require an unlock right into the middle of the article, then goes on to say that they have no specifi…
>>They take the devices away for some period, but if they’re securely locked, TSA won’t be able to get anything from them. You have no way of knowing that, or if they are doing anything to the hardware, cloning the SIM, adding tracking, or simply cloning the flash for possible evaluation later Further it should be considered unconstitutional for them to even take it for 1 second. > If it’s some fancy explosives sniff…
Al-Shabaab used a laptop bomb on a plane out of Somalia after successfully getting it through X-ray machines. It blew a hole in the plane, but they managed to land it successfully.
Swabbing laptops for explosives doesn’t sound like security theatre to me.
Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If I understand it correctly, the TSA is not forcing anyone to unlock devices. I'm sure they also don't shrug their shoulders and say "Locked? Oh well.". Varying degrees of coercion, threat, implicit or otherwise, relying on passenger ignorance to their rights. I wonder how many have unlocked it at their request too, which is specifically different from "forced".
What makes you so sure of that? I’ve had them swab electronics for explosives before and they never even try to turn the things on. I’m pretty sure I’ve had them ask me once or twice to prove that a laptop was real by turning it on, and they never asked for it to be unlocked. That’s my whole point: this article appears to be written to make you assume that a lot more is going on than they actually describe.
This. I've had TSA request "a personal device, like a phone or laptop" twice at the Austin airport. The first time, I (pretty defensively) refused and started asking why they needed it. Turns out I had been randomly selected for an explosives swab, and they wanted to test my devices rather than my person. Both times the test was performed with the devices powered off, and with me present.
Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
#75Domestic flights? Wow. Since this is a different agency than typically conducts (similarly intrusive and seemingly illegal) searches in the case of international flights, I wonder if they are following a common protocol? If so, who creates that? I'm about to fly internationally for the first time in a while; anybody have any advice on how to handle my devices?
Stop flying so much and tell them when the time comes fuckoff and come back with a warrant or at least get an officer who can explain under what authority do they conduct domestic searches without a warrant, ergo, unconstitutionally? Ah, you know what, I get it. They want to bring back the 90's cryptowars. They will lose again.
This is terribly dangerous advice for a border crossing.
Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
How come that thing that is a thing isn't a thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service 4,000 law enforcement officers. But that is separate from what powers we as a society should allow them.
The Air Marshals are literal peace officers—there to stop crime that happens in the air. Completely separate from the idea of a highway patrol, which is there—in essence—to be a permanent dragnet for BOLOs, and to (probabilistically) be witness to statutory crimes/regulatory violations (e.g. dumping of industrial waste) where no individual victim is going to report them.
So the Highway Patrol is there to stop crime that happens on highways, and that's totally different?
Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Presumably whatever forensic tools they have will easily detect hidden partitions. The advice I hear for international travelers is disk encryption + FedEx'ing your laptop to its destination.
They dont use tools. For inspection of random phones from non-suspects they just poke around by hand. Only when they find something do they employ actual tools.
Why would they do this rather than simply image the device? How do you know what their protocol is?
Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They take the devices away for some period, but if they’re securely locked, TSA won’t be able to get anything from them. It is well documented that there is no cell phone that cannot be unlocked. And once it's unlocked, who knows what the real goal is. On the surface, one suspects that it's to examine its contents. But other possibilities include sideloading spyware, or even targeted viruses. Some random NGO secret…
> It is well documented that there is no cell phone that cannot be unlocked. Citation needed?
For iPhones: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2018/02/26/gover...
For every other phone, Google is your friend.
Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stop flying so much and tell them when the time comes fuckoff and come back with a warrant or at least get an officer who can explain under what authority do they conduct domestic searches without a warrant, ergo, unconstitutionally? Ah, you know what, I get it. They want to bring back the 90's cryptowars. They will lose again.
This is terribly dangerous advice for a border crossing.
On the other hand, a big part of nonviolent resistance as preached by figures like Gandhi and MLK Jr. is acknowledging that your actions may get you detained by a civil power. You'd be relying on the arbitrary, capricious, and in your view reprehensible nature of the charges to sway public opinion and stoke outrage.
It's not good advice if you are an individual who just wants to avoid the inside of a prison cell, and it's definitely dangerous, but I'd still admire anyone with the strength of character to follow through with it.
It's also terrible advice in countries where the preferred solution is simply to murder loud activists. At least you can theoretically be released from prison.
Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights
#80It's possible the TSA will claim that taking a device for some amount of time and giving it back doesn't qualify as a (4th amendment) search. However, from a security perspective it would be awful if they could disappear with your device whenever they wanted - that certainly makes me uncomfortable.
>It's possible the TSA will claim that taking a device for some amount of time and giving it back doesn't qualify as a (4th amendment) search.
I wonder how long it would take to clone a phone and give back a ringer with some extra software installed. It's not like most people know the serial number of their phone. And if the phone's in a case, then put the ringer in the target phones case, and it has the same look and feel.