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Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

theguardian.com

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Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

#31

Post by justinjlynn »

brokensegue wrote: post #12
jMyles wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Presumably, air travel is a privilege, not a right, just like driving a car is. Freedom of movement is a privilege, not a right? What can you possibly be talking about? Did I miss a memo? The United States (and other common law societies) have a long history of enshrining freedom of movement as a fundamental right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_Unit... Also, be reminded that the USA voted…

freedom of movement \neq freedom to fly though

freedom to "use technology" is the freedom to "participate in society" which is the whole point. In the 80s it may have been permissible to ban those convicted of hacking crimes from computers and touch tone telephones, but today?

Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

#32

Post by eli »

ep103 wrote: post #16
jMyles wrote: post #11

Domestic flights? Wow. Since this is a different agency than typically conducts (similarly intrusive and seemingly illegal) searches in the case of international flights, I wonder if they are following a common protocol? If so, who creates that? I'm about to fly internationally for the first time in a while; anybody have any advice on how to handle my devices?

hidden partitions, and/or storing all your important data off-device are the two pieces of advice that get suggested the most.

Presumably whatever forensic tools they have will easily detect hidden partitions.

The advice I hear for international travelers is disk encryption + FedEx'ing your laptop to its destination.

Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

#33

Post by derefr »

maxerickson wrote: post #10
derefr wrote: post #2

A devil's advocate argument, for people to have something explicit to rebut here: One of the guises state police operate under in America is the "highway patrol"—a force that searches for terrorists and drug trafficking and the like. And presumably, air travel is a privilege, not a right, just like driving a car is. (Or is it? Taking public transit is a right that can't be denied to someone unless they explicitly bre…

How come that thing that is a thing isn't a thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service 4,000 law enforcement officers. But that is separate from what powers we as a society should allow them.

The Air Marshals are literal peace officers—there to stop crime that happens in the air. Completely separate from the idea of a highway patrol, which is there—in essence—to be a permanent dragnet for BOLOs, and to (probabilistically) be witness to statutory crimes/regulatory violations (e.g. dumping of industrial waste) where no individual victim is going to report them.

Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

#34

Post by chillwaves »

gowld wrote: post #28
pjc50 wrote: post #19

> "One woman who shared her story with the ACLU told the Guardian that in the last year, she has twice had her electronics searched while flying within California. The 64-year-old, who works in nonprofits and requested anonymity for fear that she could face further scrutiny from TSA, said that on one occasion last year, TSA agents pulled her aside to pat her down multiple times and eventually asked to see both her iP…

It's also a classic tactic against conservative groups. https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/560308997/irs-apologizes-for-...

What a non story. The real story is that congress passes impossible to enforce legislation that cannot properly define which groups are political and which not.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/liberal-groups-got-...

> A federal watchdog has identified scores of cases in which the Internal Revenue Service may have targeted liberal-leaning groups for extra scrutiny based on their names or political leanings, a finding that could undermine claims that conservatives were unfairly targeted under President Barack Obama.

This is the kind of scandal the right clings to -- gov't bureaucrats trying to do their job.

"Classic tactic" for the gov't to target conservatives? You need to provide some real evidence or another example that pans out before making those kind of claims.

Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

#35

Post by mikeash »

This article seems like it’s written to be deliberately confusing.

If I understand it correctly, the TSA is not forcing anyone to unlock devices. They take the devices away for some period, but if they’re securely locked, TSA won’t be able to get anything from them.

However, the article drops border searches which do require an unlock right into the middle of the article, then goes on to say that they have no specific examples of TSA doing the same thing. This implies that they have reason to believe it’s happening, but as far as I can see there’s no justification for that.

The big question is: what are they doing with these things? If it’s some fancy explosives sniffing (like they already do to my contact lens solution) then it’s nothing interesting. If it’s an electronic search if unsecured devices, that’s bad. If it’s an attempt to force travelers to unlock secured devices, that’s horrible. The article seems to want to portray it as the last one, while only giving evidence for one of the first two.

Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

#36

Post by onetimemanytime »

iwalsh wrote: post #3

It's possible the TSA will claim that taking a device for some amount of time and giving it back doesn't qualify as a (4th amendment) search. However, from a security perspective it would be awful if they could disappear with your device whenever they wanted - that certainly makes me uncomfortable.

>>It's possible the TSA will claim that taking a device for some amount of time and giving it back doesn't qualify as a (4th amendment) search.

Not likely to work: "We just want to search your house for 30 minutes" or "you can have your document back after we photocopy it, so no warrant needed."

The idea is that they cannot do certain things without a warrant.

Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

#38

Post by arca_vorago »

jMyles wrote: post #11

Domestic flights? Wow. Since this is a different agency than typically conducts (similarly intrusive and seemingly illegal) searches in the case of international flights, I wonder if they are following a common protocol? If so, who creates that? I'm about to fly internationally for the first time in a while; anybody have any advice on how to handle my devices?

Stop flying so much and tell them when the time comes fuckoff and come back with a warrant or at least get an officer who can explain under what authority do they conduct domestic searches without a warrant, ergo, unconstitutionally?

Ah, you know what, I get it. They want to bring back the 90's cryptowars. They will lose again.

Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

#39

Post by bibhjbdjbd »

ep103 wrote: post #16
jMyles wrote: post #11

Domestic flights? Wow. Since this is a different agency than typically conducts (similarly intrusive and seemingly illegal) searches in the case of international flights, I wonder if they are following a common protocol? If so, who creates that? I'm about to fly internationally for the first time in a while; anybody have any advice on how to handle my devices?

hidden partitions, and/or storing all your important data off-device are the two pieces of advice that get suggested the most.

Most people access email through their phone.

Giving up your phone also means they get a complete copy of your email.

If you use a VPN to access company servers they will swoop up that information as well, and by extension all server side data your VPN credentials Grant access.

They may not be doing all that, but it's only a matter of time and knowledge given their lack of constraints.

Re: Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searches on domestic flights

#40

Post by cryoshon »

ctrl-j wrote: post #8
derefr wrote: post #2

A devil's advocate argument, for people to have something explicit to rebut here: One of the guises state police operate under in America is the "highway patrol"—a force that searches for terrorists and drug trafficking and the like. And presumably, air travel is a privilege, not a right, just like driving a car is. (Or is it? Taking public transit is a right that can't be denied to someone unless they explicitly bre…

> It occurs to me that America has, in every state, a state-run "highway patrol" that searches for terrorists and drug trafficking and the like. The state-run highway patrol is still subject to the 4th amendment (search and seizure.) If you get pulled over by a LEO - they need consent, probable cause, or a warrant in order to rifle through your belongings.

> they need consent, probable cause, or a warrant in order to rifle through your belongings.

which they can invent with no problem if they feel like it.

nobody who declines to a search gets away with it; they just call a drug dog to alert and then they can search anyway.

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